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64 Posts

03-16-2016

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  • Message 11 of 26

Re: P70 BIOS 2.10 Posted

2016-10-23, 16:55 PM

wrote:

wrote:

FWIW, from the BIOS readme file:

 

If the UEFI BIOS has been updated to version 2.07 or higher, it is no longer
  able to roll back to the version before 2.07 for security improvement.

...  No idea really, I only know that ever since 2.07 with my above described 4-entry boot menu the ENTER key does not produce that Startup Interrupt Sub-menu.


I am still having this same problem with my P-50.  I can use the alternate methods to reach the boot menu or BIOS, but I like the "Press Enter" feature and it bugs me to have any defect on my Laptop that can be fixed with a corrected BIOS.

 

I PM'd Amy_Lenovo twice back in September requesting that this be forwarded to their BIOS engineers, but was ignored both times.  

 

Mike

 

 

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06-13-2013

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  • Message 12 of 26

Re: P70 BIOS 2.10 Posted

2016-10-23, 19:16 PM

wrote:

I am still having this same problem with my P-50.  I can use the alternate methods to reach the boot menu or BIOS, but I like the "Press Enter" feature and it bugs me to have any defect on my Laptop that can be fixed with a corrected BIOS.

 

I PM'd Amy_Lenovo twice back in September requesting that this be forwarded to their BIOS engineers, but was ignored both times. 


Ok. There must be something in common with our P50 and P70 situations that causes this symptom for us, but apparently not for any/many others.  So let's compare environments.

 

I have a multi-boot system and make use of Boot Manager and its boot menu, with both Win7 and Win10 installed.  I also have Macrium Reflect as a 3rd boot option on the boot menu, and I discovered that MS installed a 4th option on the boot menu ("System Recovery") when I applied the 1607 Anniversary Update to Win10.  This 4th item item is actually what seems to be a RESTORE of a "system image" or some other type of repair/backout of the 1607 update, to revert Win10 to the pre-1607 state.

 

I also have used EasyBCD to manipulate the boot menu contents, and this has apparently forced text-mode Boot Manager presentation.  I cannot any longer produce the GUI-mode Boot Manager presentation which I first noticed with Win8.1 and know is still present in Win10.  I'm sure this is because of all the fingers which have had their way with my boot menu, but it's not a problem. Text mode boot menu works fine, it's just that I know that I've somehow lost GUI mode boot menu.

 

I do not use the Lenovo "diagnostic" boot option as I once did, but rather now have the "quick" boot option set.  So normal booting of my P70 produces the new red Lenovo logo with the "press ENTER" message below it.  When I press ENTER as offered, the original message is instantly changed to "presenting startup interrupt menu" and then there is a brief hesitation, and then the BIOS is obviously NOT presenting the startup interrupt menu at all but instead is going directly to Boot Manager for normal booting of the machine.  It does NOT present the intermediate "startup interrupt menu" (offering ESC, F1, F12, etc., as it once used to) as it should. But typing F1 and F12 instead of ENTER will work just as they should, going to BIOS Setup utility and boot menu as they should, and would have had the intermediate "startup interrupt menu" been presented and then I typed F1 or F12.

 

I have used BIOS Setup to EXCLUDE all of my boot devices other than those which I might actually boot from.  So my remaining BIOS boot device list includes only (a) USB HDD, (b) optical CD/DVD which I have on my P70, and (c) NVMe0.  All other items have been migrated to the EXCLUDE list.

 

I also am not using the original HDD spinner which came with my P70 and which Lenovo pre-installed Win7 on.  I have installed my own two Samsung 512GB 950 Pro NVMe drives, and used Macrium Reflect to clone Win7 over from HDD spinner to NVMe0 which is where I boot from.  I also installed Win10 as a second bootable Windows on a second partition of the same NVMe0 drive.  NVMe1 is used for "data" partitions.  I also replaced the original 2.5" 500GB HDD spinner with a 512GB 2.5" Samsung 850 Pro SSD.

 

I have "over-provisioned" all three of my Samsung devices, leaving just under 10% of their capacity unallocated to any partition.  This unallocated space is utilized (to a performance/lifetime benefit) by the Samsung Magician software which I have installed on both Win7 and Win10.

 

I do know that the ENTER key used to work at one time, and I did get that "startup interrupt menu".  But it's been a long time, and I can't recall exactly when it first started failing.  It absolutely had to come sometime after the BIOS version which gave birth to the red Lenovo logo, which made the "press ENTER" message very prominent.  I distinctly remember I used to see that VGA-mode startup interrupt menu with the gray background with the assorted Fn-key choices listed.  But no longer.

 

 

Do you see anything unusual, or that we both have which could be considered "uncommon" or extraordinary and which might somehow be involved with the symptom?  Sure seems out of our hands, as this is 100% Lenovo BIOS software at work here, and it should just be doing what it was written to do.

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64 Posts

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  • Message 13 of 26

Re: P70 BIOS 2.10 Posted

2016-10-23, 22:09 PM

I purchased my P50 with the NVMe 256GB as the only drive.

 

I added a 512GB Samsung NVMe 950 & 2TB Samsung SSD 850 EVO as D & E drives respectively and I moved the 256GB Drive to slot 0 so it would show up as "Disk 0" in Windows Disk Manager.

 

I made those additions and changes early on and had no problems entering the menu by hitting enter when prompted. However, for trouble shooting purposes, I put the 256GB drive back to slot 1 and removed the other 2 drives. This made no difference. I still couldn't get into the menu by hitting enter when prompted.

 

I'm running Windows 10 Anniversary Edition and do not use a boot manager at startup. Never have.

 

I use Macrium Home Edition and am using a restored image of my C drive.

 

I have "Windows Boot Manager" selected in the BIOS. I temporarily changed the boot order to use my 256GB C drive as the boot drive and this made no difference.

 

I also have Samsung Magician software installed, but have only used the diagnostics. I don't use "over provisioned" for any of my drives.

 

"DSperber wrote:

...Do you see anything unusual, or that we both have which could be considered "uncommon" or extraordinary and which might somehow be involved with the symptom? Sure seems out of our hands, as this is 100% Lenovo BIOS software at work here, and it should just be doing what it was written to do."

 

The main thing that I see is that you run a boot manager and I don't.  Yet we both still have the same issue. I also find it odd that more P50 and P70 owners aren't seeing and reporting this same problem. 

 

While I was trouble shooting earlier today.  I removed all drives to see what would happen.  I hit enter when prompted and it did go into the menu.  I then just let it try to boot up without hitting enter and it also went into the menu.  Then I timed it both ways, hitting enter when prompted and just letting it go into the menu because it couldn't find a boot drive.  It took the same amount of time both ways.  This leads me to believe that hitting enter still has no effect with or without drives installed.  I don't see how this cannot be a BIOS issue.

 

Mike

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04-20-2008

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  • Message 14 of 26

Re: P70 BIOS 2.10 Posted

2016-10-23, 22:22 PM

Do you think that it might be related to the Macrium Reflect program and how it restores the UEFI? That is also something that you both have in common. I have restored an image of my system for recovery using Acronis True Image without any ill effects, but I did notice that that final process step in the restore was to adjust the UEFI.

 

Just a thought here.

 


P53 XEON 2276 BIOS 1.28 OLED UHD 4K Multi-touch display, 96GB RAM, RTX5000, RAID 1, 1TB x 2 Samsung PM981, 1TB PM981, WWAN
P70 XEON 1505, BIOS 2.35, 4k Display, 64GB, M3000M NVIDIA GPU, RAID1 1TB Samsung PM981 PCIe-NVMe SSD x 2, 2x Samsung 850 Pro 1TB SSD. EM7455 WWAN
P1. BIOS 1.25,Xeon Processor, 4k UHD IPS multi-touch display, 32GB, PM981 1TB x 2, RAID1

I am not an employee nor an agent of Lenovo.
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06-13-2013

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  • Message 15 of 26

Re: P70 BIOS 2.10 Posted

2016-10-23, 22:52 PM

wrote:

I purchased my P50 with the NVMe 256GB as the only drive.

 

I added a 512GB Samsung NVMe 950 & 2TB Samsung SSD 850 EVO as D & E drives respectively and I moved the 256GB Drive to slot 0 so it would show up as "Disk 0" in Windows Disk Manager.

 

I use Macrium Home Edition and am using a restored image of my C drive.

 

While I was trouble shooting earlier today.  I removed all drives to see what would happen.  I hit enter when prompted and it did go into the menu.  I then just let it try to boot up without hitting enter and it also went into the menu.

 

Mike


I don't understand about the Lenovo-delivered NVMe drive not already being in the NVMe0 slot.  Isn't that where they recommend a 1-NVMe setup have its one drive placed?  I'm surprised the factory wouldn't have installed your drive into that 0 slot to begin with?  Are you saying they actually pre-installed it into slot 1, i.e. NVMe1, and not in NVMe0?  Hmm...

 

I've never been overly concerned with with DISKMGMT shows as "Disk 0" or otherwise. While the way these get named may be tied to hardware (e.g. the particular SATA connectors on a desktop motherboard), it shouldn't be affecting any performance or causing problems.  It may be cosmetically annoying when you look at a display, but I've never been concerned or taken any steps to be sure I was using a specific SATA connection (other than say if there was a choice of SATA2 vs. SATA3, of course).

 

Regarding your comment about running a "restored image of your C drive", I don't understand.  Do you mean you had occasion to need to restore an image backup for some disaster/recovery reason, to restore your environment to some recently taken working production image backup? Now the net result is similar to what Macrium does when it "clones" directly from one drive to another when both drives are available and visible simultaneously.  And it's the same result as if you accomplished cloning via the alternative 2-step procedure if you didn't have both drives available simultaneously, so that you'd go (a) out from source HDD/SSD to intermediate USB drive, and then (b) back from intermediate USB drive to target NVMe.

 

But otherwise, the restored image should of course be functionally identical to what you started from (although perhaps the disk signatures might be altered in the output process, to avoid having two seemingly physically identical drives present at one time?).

 

As far as your final comment, I don't follow from your description what actually happened.  Are you saying that when you removed all drives, and pressed ENTER, that it DID present the intermediate startup menu with the multiple choice function keys displayed?  Or that it still DID NOT present the expected intermediate menu when you pressed ENTER with no drives present?  I think you said that it DID present the menu without any drives present, but then at the end of your paragraph you say that without any drives it DID present the menu, even though with drives it DID NOT present the menu.

 

Or is your reference to "menu" actually the "boot device menu", and not the "startup interrupt FN-key menu" which I thought we were focused on?

 

Anyway, no matter what the numerology of trying to figure out what external factors might influence the story so that ENTER actually does or does not work as expected, it certainly seems clear that we're talking about the Lenovo BIOS which is at work here, so that any defect or anomaly or malfunction is obviously coming from that code.

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  • Message 16 of 26

Re: P70 BIOS 2.10 Posted

2016-10-23, 23:43 PM

 


"DSperber wrote:

Regarding your comment about running a "restored image of your C drive", I don't understand."

 

I'm not sure why saying I'm running a restored image is confusing.  Let me explain further.  I wanted to test out Macrium Reflect, so a while back I made a Macrium image of my entire C drive.  All partitions.  I also made a windows system image for "just in case".  I copied the Macrium image to an external drive and booted up with a Macrium boot disk.  I then restored the entire image back to my boot drive.  That is the current state of my C Drive.  I am sure it is identical to my drive as it was when I created the image, but I mentioned it as a variable.

 

"DSperber wrote:

As far as your final comment, I don't follow from your description what actually happened.  Are you saying that when you removed all drives, and pressed ENTER, that it DID present the intermediate startup menu with the multiple choice function keys displayed?"

 

You are right.  I DIDN'T get intermediate startup menu.  It's been so long since I've seen it I forgot what I was looking for.  I was only bringing up the 'boot menu' not the intermediate startup  menu.  Nothing I tried would get me to the startup menu. 

 

"DSperber wrote:

Or is your reference to "menu" actually the "boot device menu", and not the "startup interrupt FN-key menu" which I thought we were focused on? "

 

My bad, sorry for the confusing post. The menu I was seeing in my above post was actually the 'boot device menu'.  HOWEVER, my concern is with the "Startup Interupt FN-Key Menu" which I was unable to produce at all with any of the testing I did.

 

Again, I agree that the problem is in the BIOS code

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

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  • Message 17 of 26

Re: P70 BIOS 2.10 Posted

2016-10-23, 23:54 PM

wrote:

Do you think that it might be related to the Macrium Reflect program and how it restores the UEFI? That is also something that you both have in common. I have restored an image of my system for recovery using Acronis True Image without any ill effects, but I did notice that that final process step in the restore was to adjust the UEFI.

 

Just a thought here.

 


I wouldn't think so.  I had all the drives out of the Laptop today and still couldn't bring up the menu.  As DSperber pointed out above, all I was bringing up is the boot menu.

 

You do give me idea to try something in the BIOS with UEFI.  I will try messing with that a little to see if it makes a difference.  

 

How do you have "Secure Boot' and UEFI set in the BIOS?

 

Mike

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04-20-2008

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  • Message 18 of 26

Re: P70 BIOS 2.10 Posted

2016-10-24, 0:26 AM

Secure Boot "Enabled"

UEFI Only

 


P53 XEON 2276 BIOS 1.28 OLED UHD 4K Multi-touch display, 96GB RAM, RTX5000, RAID 1, 1TB x 2 Samsung PM981, 1TB PM981, WWAN
P70 XEON 1505, BIOS 2.35, 4k Display, 64GB, M3000M NVIDIA GPU, RAID1 1TB Samsung PM981 PCIe-NVMe SSD x 2, 2x Samsung 850 Pro 1TB SSD. EM7455 WWAN
P1. BIOS 1.25,Xeon Processor, 4k UHD IPS multi-touch display, 32GB, PM981 1TB x 2, RAID1

I am not an employee nor an agent of Lenovo.
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64 Posts

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  • Message 19 of 26

Re: P70 BIOS 2.10 Posted

2016-10-24, 0:29 AM

wrote:

Secure Boot "Enabled"

UEFI Only

 


Same here.  Changing it didn't make any difference.

 

Thanks,

Mike

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2371 Posts

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  • Message 20 of 26

Re: P70 BIOS 2.10 Posted

2016-10-24, 0:39 AM

My P70 configuration is posted below in my signature. Have you tried to reset the BIOS to default configuration, saving it, and then changing it back to what you currently are using?


P53 XEON 2276 BIOS 1.28 OLED UHD 4K Multi-touch display, 96GB RAM, RTX5000, RAID 1, 1TB x 2 Samsung PM981, 1TB PM981, WWAN
P70 XEON 1505, BIOS 2.35, 4k Display, 64GB, M3000M NVIDIA GPU, RAID1 1TB Samsung PM981 PCIe-NVMe SSD x 2, 2x Samsung 850 Pro 1TB SSD. EM7455 WWAN
P1. BIOS 1.25,Xeon Processor, 4k UHD IPS multi-touch display, 32GB, PM981 1TB x 2, RAID1

I am not an employee nor an agent of Lenovo.

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