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2644 Posts

06-13-2013

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P73 owners: have you upgraded to 2004/20H2 successfully??

2020-11-11, 4:26 AM

I have another separate thread going on this forum, regarding my inability to install the just released 20H2 on my P73 which is currently running 1909. I won't repeat the details here, as you can follow my efforts on that other thread.

 

But what I'd like to know from other P73 owners is whether you've been able to successfully apply 2004  over the past six months? Seems like a dumb question, because I'll bet the answer is YES. But I can't. In fact my P73 to this very date has never even offered me 2004 for download/install.

 

Furthermore, I decided to try and work around this mystery and perform my own manual install of the just this week released 20H2. I've tried two approaches, one utilizing Windows Update Assistant and a second utilizing "upgrade this PC, retaining currently installed apps and data" via full Win10 installation media (built from the MS "create Win10 installation media" download page). Both of these attempts failed identically, quitting about 85% through the update with a message about hardware incompatibilty with 20H2:

 

I've tried disconnecting most of the USB-connected external devices on the P73, thinking it was one of them that was the culprit. But with no success. No change. It just seems that something about 2004/20H2 appears incompatible with my P73.

 

So I'm asking all P73 users reading this thread: have you upgraded successfully to 2004?

 

And even more curious, have you been able to upgrade successfully this week to 20H2?

 

No need to present details here, as that's going on the other thread. I'm simply trying to find out if I am alone (probably am!) in being unsuccessful in progressing past 1909 (which had no problems installing).

 

For me, something that MS has done starting in 2004 appears to be unacceptable to Windows Update and also the Windows Installer as it relates to something about my P73 hardware.

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2644 Posts

06-13-2013

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  • Message 2 of 52

Re:P73 owners: have you upgraded to 2004/20H2 successfully??

2020-11-11, 11:56 AM

I mention that the official Lenovo support pages confirm that in fact the P73 HAS been confirmed to be tested for upgrade to both version 2004 as well as version 20H2.

 

Of course I'm not surprised. I would have expected it.

 

Which is why I am stumped as to why Windows Update on my own P73 still shows that 2004 is not available for it yet.

 

Or why attempting to manually update to 20H2 over the past few days has failed with a message indicating some kind of a a currently present hardware or driver incompatibility with whatever is present in 20H2.

 

And yet, no problem whatsoever to upgrade to 1909 back in June, Looking at folder dates it appears the arriving Lenovo factory pre-installed Win10 1903 image was dated June 6. I received the machine on June 25, and upgraded it to 1909 on June 26. No problems whatsoever.

 

Anybody have any ideas or suggestions? It still could be that USB-c -> DVI cable going to the external monitor, which I haven't yet had an opportunity to eliminate and retry the upgrade one more time. Although why it would be just fine for 1909 but not for 20H2 is unexplained and implausible.

 

 

I might take some extreme actions, at least for diagnosis. A quick Macrium Reflect image backup to preserve what I have right this moment, and then I could wipe this Win10 partition and try to install a totally from-scratch  "new" Win10 at 20H2 from the same Win10 20H2 install media. Perhaps it will fail again (likely), but perhaps it will work (less likely). If it fails, I can then retry the same experimental from-scratch Win10 install but this time using Win10 1909 install media, which I have 100% expectation will definitely work. This just proves it's not really the machine, it's Win10 20H2 vs. 1909 and the machine.

 

So if a Win10 1909 install works and a Win10 20H2 install fails, on the exact same P73 with the exact same peripherals attached, what have we learned? And who is "at fault", MS or Lenovo? I'm still no closer to determining exactly what hardware item is the "culprit", or how I might get my P73 up to 20H2, if that's even possible.

 

The machine is under warranty of course, so I'm going to open a support ticket. Perhaps there's some path forward, even as extreme as getting a replacement machine under warranty (hopefully pre-installed at 20H2, or at least just capable of being upgraded) if all else fails.

 

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2644 Posts

06-13-2013

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  • Message 3 of 52

Re:P73 owners: have you upgraded to 2004/20H2 successfully??

2020-11-12, 7:38 AM

Looks like this is actually a known Microsoft bug, causing inappropriate "upgrade blocker" to be applied for a mistaken interpretation of P73 hardware related to Thunderbolt.

 

The problem has been duplicated on a second P73. Same "stuck at 1909" symptom, same "waiting for 2004" from Windows Update, same "cannot manually upgrade to 20H2 using either Windows Update Assistant or Windows Install -> "upgrade in place".

 

And yet, the P73 appears on the list of Lenovo's compatible machines for 20H1 and 20H2. It's not clear how they accomplished this, but I assume it's by testing with a P73 that had nothing external attached to it. Seems reasonable, since they're concerned about verifying the P73 can install and run with 20H2, not anybody else's hardware. So they probably did not have any external devices connected to their P73 via Thunderbolt, and thus escaped this Microsoft bug.

 

Word is that the Microsoft bug has already been fixed, and will be pushed out Windows Updates this month.  We shall see.

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12-27-2019

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  • Message 4 of 52

Re:P73 owners: have you upgraded to 2004/20H2 successfully??

2020-11-15, 0:59 AM

I had 20H2 just installed, after which I did the optional Lenovo driver update. This literally bricked my device (E485).

https://forums.lenovo.com/topic/findpost/1285/5049484/5183400

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2644 Posts

06-13-2013

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Re:P73 owners: have you upgraded to 2004/20H2 successfully??

2020-11-15, 5:08 AM

@ Skinkie wrote:
 

 

I had 20H2 just installed, after which I did the optional Lenovo driver update. This literally bricked my device (E485).

https://forums.lenovo.com/topic/findpost/1285/5049484/5183400

 

 

Although your report is for an E485 and my problem is on a P73, please tell me:

 

(a) Did you receive the 20H2 update automatically through Windows Update?

 

(b)  Or did you manually force its install it yourself using Windows Update Assistant?

 

(c)  Or did you install it through some other technique?

 

 

Also, and this is very crucial for me to know:

 

(a) Do you have any external device connected through the two USB-c Thunderbolt ports on the back edge of the P73, or are both Thunderbolt ports not in use?

 

(b) If you are using one or both Thunderbolt ports, exactly what devices do you have connected to each port?

 

(c) If you are using an external mini-dock like the TOTU 13-in-1 model I use, what device are you using and what external devices are then connected to the mini-dock?

 

 

 

NOTE: I also have a T495 (also AMD Ryzen, as with your E485) as well as P70 (all Intel), both of which contain USB-c Thunderbolt ports but which are NOT IN USE on both machines. I was able to successfully install 20H2 on both and without any negative consequences.

 

I'm still trying to correlate the success or failure of 20H2, and even if it's available through Windows Update or can be manually forced, depending on whether Thunderbolt-connected devices are involved.

 

We shall see if the promised MS-delivered "fix" for this "upgrade blocker wrongly applied" but really does fix things for me and my P73.

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2644 Posts

06-13-2013

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  • Message 6 of 52

Re:P73 owners: have you upgraded to 2004/20H2 successfully??

2020-11-21, 9:54 AM

Follow-up on this topic...

 

 

(1) I have had no problem applying 20H2 to numerous machines previously at either 1909 or 2004:

 

(a) my W530, which isn't even on the "20H2 Compatible" list but nevertheless 20H2 installs and runs just fine, and

 

(b) my P70, which is on the list, and

 

(c) my T495, which is also on the list

 

(d) numerous other older and newer Lenovo desktop machines (M92p, M93p, M800 SFF, M910t, M920t)

 

The ONLY machine I have NOT been able to apply 20H2 to is my P73, which incredibly IS on the "20H2 Compatible" list.

 

 

(2) My assorted methods for successfully applying the 20H2 upgrade up to this moment include:

 

(a) ordinary normal Windows Update offering which appeared on its own, and

 

(b) use Windows Update Assistant, to "manually force" the upgrade all the way to 20H2 which had not yet been offered, in one jump, and

 

(c) use "using the tool to upgrade this PC to Windows 10" method offered on the Win10 Installation Media Download page, which depends on a 4GB download of Win10 install media (to the Windows 10Upgrade folder placed somewhere on your drives, which is temporary storage for the downloaded Win10 install media to be used by SETUP.EXE)

 

 

(3) I have been unable to get my P73 to accept a 20H2 upgrade using any of the above three methods. I have now tried AND STILL FAILED to use a fourth method to get 20H2 applied. This fourth method is the "in-place upgrade" approach, and is very similar to the 'upgrade this PC" method mentioned in (c) above. It differs only in that the 4GB Win10 20H2 install media is placed on a USB pen drive created from the same Win10 Installation Media Download page named above, but using the "using the tool to create installation media to install Windows 10 on a different PC".

 

Turns out you can in fact use this very USB pen drive normally expected to be booted-to in a standalone way, to then install Win10 from scratch to a new PC, in an alternative way. Turns out you can simply insert the USB pen drive into an existing running Win10 (say at 1909), and then RUN the SETUP.EXE located on the USB drive. This will kick off the 'in-place upgrade" which is really almost identical to the "upgrade this PC" method except that the 4GB download of Win10 install media is avoided. Instead, the 4GB Win10 install media already present on the USB pen drive is used directly, with the rest of the "in-place upgrade" process then identical to "upgrade this PC" process. Simply avoids the 4GB download time and cost.

 

Anyway, I've now had a chance to give this fourth approach a try on the P73. And just to be absolutely sure there was no possible Thunderbolt connection that might trigger the failure to install, I disconnected the very last external device connected to the P73. This was my external monitor which had been connected using Thunderbolt through a USBc-to-DVI cable plugged into a rear Thunderbolt port.  So now the P73 was 100% totally on its own, using laptop screen and with zero externally connected devices aside from the USB pen drive containing the Win10 20H2 install media.

 

And, once again, the "in-place upgrade" method failed identically to all of the earlier failures. Same message about "This PC can't be upgraded to Windows 10".

 

 

I've now exhausted all possible methods for getting to 20H2 from 1909 while still retaining all currently installed apps and data and customizations. I haven't tried using that bootable USB pen drive and simply doing a complete full wipe-C and then full install-from-scratch, to see if "install Win10 20H2 from scratch" would be successful even though all of my "upgrade existing Win10 from xxxx to 20H2"" attempts have failed.

 

I have no idea at all how the P73 made its way onto the "20H2 Compatible" list, because it clearly is not compatible... at least in upgrade-to-20H2 mode. Maybe it's possible to do an install-from-scrach of a Win10 20H2, but for sure it's not possible to do an upgrade-from-XXXX-to-20H2 as I've confirmed on my P73 (and which has also been confirmed on a second P73 inside Lenovo). 

 

I am awaiting further updates on the so-called "MS fix for this bug" (regarding the mistakenly applied "upgrade blocker"), touted to be rolled out in late November. This is supposed to be "the fix" which will solve the problem for the P73.

 

We shall see.

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2373 Posts

04-20-2008

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  • Message 7 of 52

Re:P73 owners: have you upgraded to 2004/20H2 successfully??

2020-11-22, 12:38 PM

Do you have the display config set to discrete or hybrid? I've had no issues on my P53 with upgrades when it is set to hybrid.


P53 XEON 2276 BIOS 1.28 OLED UHD 4K Multi-touch display, 96GB RAM, RTX5000, RAID 1, 1TB x 2 Samsung PM981, 1TB PM981, WWAN
P70 XEON 1505, BIOS 2.35, 4k Display, 64GB, M3000M NVIDIA GPU, RAID1 1TB Samsung PM981 PCIe-NVMe SSD x 2, 2x Samsung 850 Pro 1TB SSD. EM7455 WWAN
P1. BIOS 1.25,Xeon Processor, 4k UHD IPS multi-touch display, 32GB, PM981 1TB x 2, RAID1

I am not an employee nor an agent of Lenovo.
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2644 Posts

06-13-2013

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  • Message 8 of 52

Re:P73 owners: have you upgraded to 2004/20H2 successfully??

2020-11-22, 12:56 PM

@ harrisb wrote:
 

 

Do you have the display config set to discrete or hybrid? I've had no issues on my P53 with upgrades when it is set to hybrid.

 

 

Fascinating. Actually I have it set to discrete. Hadn't even thought to fool with that BIOS setting because I'd learned that the MS bug (in "upgrade blocker") had something to do with external NVMe drive through Thunderbolt so I thought it was just generally Thunderbolt related. Never even imagined it could be hybrid vs. discrete.

 

I will give that a try, but honestly I'm skeptical. Remember that the P73 arrived in early June with 1903 installed. I upgraded it to 1909 myself, without any problem. And that's where it "stalled", unable to apply any of the 20xx major releases.  And Windows Update doesn't even offer either of the 20xx releases. It just says "it's coming, when your machine is ready".

 

Also, this same symptom (of being stuck at 1909 with the lab P73) was reported from internal Lenovo engineering. My own guess is that the lab P73 probably is hybrid (but I will ask).

 

Given the slow internet speed and monthly data limit where the P73 lives, I think I'll just wait it out for now. 1909 is working fine, and in theory the MS "fix" for the problem is supposed to come out this month, presumably in an "important update" that should be seen as available even with 1909, even if neither of the 20xx releases has been installed. After all, this "fix" is specifically so that Windows Update will no longer be "blocked" from moving forward from 1909.

 

I'm still waiting to hear back from MS and Lenovo-internal, with their response to my latest test. Now I hadn't mentioned discrete vs. hybrid to them, but I will once I hear back.

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2644 Posts

06-13-2013

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  • Message 9 of 52

Re:P73 owners: have you upgraded to 2004/20H2 successfully??

2020-11-30, 18:33 PM

Latest update as of 11/30.

(1) Inside-Lenovo P73 still fails to upgrade past 1909. Still blocked by MS bug (KB dated 11/6 as of last status):

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4592819/error-when-plugging-in-a-thunderbolt-nvme-ssd

(2) Additional attempts to upgrade past 1909 for T470, T480 and T490 (all of which are also "blocked" at 1909) similarly all still fail as well.

 

Look like MS has still not yet resolved this "by late November" as originally estimated. While the original issue addressed by KB4592819 may well be valid, obviously whatever they're doing has falsely and negatively impacted other machines that do not have the problem hardware configuration (i.e. they do NOT have a Thunderbolt-connected external NVMe SSD), wrongly imposing an "upgrade block" on them as well.

I will sit tight until MS gets this all sorted out eventually.

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2644 Posts

06-13-2013

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  • Message 10 of 52

Re:P73 owners: have you upgraded to 2004/20H2 successfully??

2020-12-01, 5:56 AM

Later status update...

Interestingly, just later today this very same afternoon where this morning's test still failed, it looks like "the fix" must have been officially published by MS. According to the Win10 "Outstanding and Resolved Issues" status page at 2PM PT today it was reclassified as "resolved:

A re-test later this afternoon of trying to request 20H2 still failed. So maybe it will actually be some time before the effects of this "resolved" issue are really seen out in the wild.

And of course still yet to be seen is whether or not this so-called "fix" actually does truly FIX the problem for P73 and other machines. Remember that there actually is no Thunderbolt NVMe SSD device plugged into these machines, which in theory was this specific bug.  So for the P73 the effect is the same (i.e. 20H2 is blocked) but the cause may be something different. Or not. Perhaps this really is the one universal fix and defining it specifically for Thunderbolt NVMe SSD devices is just one of many causes.

We shall see.

 

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