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2373 Posts

04-20-2008

United States of America

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Re: When do we finally get a good screen? (P50 4K)

2016-06-18, 11:12 AM

I find it interesting that your information is only from notebookcheck.net and does not reflect more recent reviews such as mobiletechreview.com which had just concluded a review in June, 2016.

 

http://www.mobiletechreview.com/notebooks/Lenovo-ThinkPad-P50-ThinkPad-P70.htm

 

Here's what they found:

 

 

The earlier review in Notebookcheck.net had a different result:

 

 

You might chaulk the difference up to same comparison, but the later review BTW, the HP Dream Color display had only a 93% measured AdobeRGB coverage.


P53 XEON 2276 BIOS 1.28 OLED UHD 4K Multi-touch display, 96GB RAM, RTX5000, RAID 1, 1TB x 2 Samsung PM981, 1TB PM981, WWAN
P70 XEON 1505, BIOS 2.35, 4k Display, 64GB, M3000M NVIDIA GPU, RAID1 1TB Samsung PM981 PCIe-NVMe SSD x 2, 2x Samsung 850 Pro 1TB SSD. EM7455 WWAN
P1. BIOS 1.25,Xeon Processor, 4k UHD IPS multi-touch display, 32GB, PM981 1TB x 2, RAID1

I am not an employee nor an agent of Lenovo.
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2373 Posts

04-20-2008

United States of America

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Re: When do we finally get a good screen? (P50 4K)

2016-06-18, 11:18 AM

@tk-don

 

My observations are for the P70 and not the P50. No disagreement with the P50 display visuals posted, but I still think that a 15.4" screen is too small for serious photo editing. It woud seem to be more suitable to use it to examine an image in the field during a photoshoot, but not for final publication purposes. That would take a large precisely calibrated monitor which itself would cost as much as either the P50 or the P70.

 

Here's one for example from EIZO:

 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1138068-REG/eizo_cg248_4k_23_8_hardware_calibration_lcd.html


P53 XEON 2276 BIOS 1.28 OLED UHD 4K Multi-touch display, 96GB RAM, RTX5000, RAID 1, 1TB x 2 Samsung PM981, 1TB PM981, WWAN
P70 XEON 1505, BIOS 2.35, 4k Display, 64GB, M3000M NVIDIA GPU, RAID1 1TB Samsung PM981 PCIe-NVMe SSD x 2, 2x Samsung 850 Pro 1TB SSD. EM7455 WWAN
P1. BIOS 1.25,Xeon Processor, 4k UHD IPS multi-touch display, 32GB, PM981 1TB x 2, RAID1

I am not an employee nor an agent of Lenovo.
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123 Posts

01-30-2016

Denmark

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Re: When do we finally get a good screen? (P50 4K)

2016-06-18, 14:10 PM

Up until now, I use my NEC LCD2490WUXi for that (which was $1200 in 2008(??)) and do all my final work in sRGB, and yes bringing "things" up in size helps productivity. But there is no reason why a laptop panel cannot technically get extremely close to a desktop monitor, but I know that some sacrifices are to be made, and I can fully live with that. The Sharp panel is a full 8-bit panel, which is already a step in the right direction. I bet the P70 4K screen is also.

 

Regarding the differences in measurements between MobileTechreview and Notebookcheck. Not that I know if this is the reason, but add to the equation that Mobiletechreview uses a Datacolor Spyder4Pro and Notebookcheck uses an X-Rite i1Pro 2. The former is a colorimeter with an MSRP of $170. The latter is a spectrophotometer that costs about $1000 in it's cheapest bundle. For measuring wide-gamut displays I personally wouldn't trust the Spyder4Pro that much, for sRGB it is probably excellent with only small "corrections" required. For wide gamut displays on the cheap, I would have chosen the i1Display Pro, perhaps paying a bit extra to have it calibrated using a reference spectrophotometer.

 

And the built-in X-Rite Pantone calibration in the P50/P70 are just for fun... probabky everyone but Lenovo knows :D

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2032 Posts

11-28-2007

Czech Republic

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Re: When do we finally get a good screen? (P50 4K)

2016-06-18, 14:34 PM

wrote:

But there is no reason why a laptop panel cannot technically get extremely close to a desktop monitor,

It is almost impossible to provide similar backlight uniformity as pro desktop monitors, that counts NEC and Eizo only (Dell and HP are just better office grade monitors, no more). These two companies developed an active backlight compensation technology (NEC - XLight, Eizo -DUE). That's why your NEC still looks like a new one after many years, so does my 2090UXi.

 

I don't expect such quality of a notebook panel. My primary concern is the panel does not look ugly at first glance. That's where most of Lenovo 2016 laptops fail, I don't need a colorimeter for that. Followed by massive PWM issues no other manufacturer is having so excessive across all top models. In other words, Lenovo does not care about quality at all.

 

My note about the color space was intended to show you can get better overall quality display in a cheaper product made by brand that used to be recognized as low quality one. Time has changed.

 

I still remember when I was about to buy my first laptop - ThinkPad R51 with SXGA+ FlexView display in 2004. It was cheaper than corresponding T42 model but still a lot of money (over here). I was still undecided (there were no IBM showrooms) until the sales manager wrote me; "You won't regret, these screens are just beautiful". She was right. It is no longer possible now :smileyfrustrated:

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ThinkPad (1992 - 2012): R51, X31, X220, Tablet 8.
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200 Posts

06-14-2016

Sweden

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Re: When do we finally get a good screen? (P50 4K)

2016-06-18, 17:43 PM

wrote:

wrote:

there is one "PC" that matches most requirements - it's called MacBook Pro with Bootcamp.

Where is the keyboard and pointing device ? I need computer keyboard, not a pocket calculator one.

 

Back to topic, IBM ThinkPads and early Lenovo models had provided that experience. It is sad Lenovo has completely thrown away that past experience and designed an ordinary laptop pretending a workstation-grade machine with questionable reliability and terrible display component. Yes, other manufacturers more or less do the same but this is not an excuse. Is the competition aspect of capitalism still there ? It works in digital camera market pretty good, you can still get real "pro" tools there.


Well, since a pocket calculator would normaly have a numeric keyboard so... :D

 

I think that we mostly agree here. I'm not trying to pass of the MacBook Pro as the worlds greatest workstation, if I believed that, I wouldn't be looking at the P50/P70. What I do like with Apple though is that you get what you pay for, they are expensive but you get top notch quality also. That used to be true with ThinkPads as well, and I really hope that will be true in the future again, but based on reactions here, it doesn't seem to be true right now. I mean, it's not likely that Lenovo had no idea these panels were quite bad, at least compared to the other stuff in these laptops. A laptop costing this much just shouldn't have these problems. Must say that I am still considering getting a P70 but I would really like to get that "I paid top dollar but I got top value and quality" first like with old ThinkPads.

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2373 Posts

04-20-2008

United States of America

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Re: When do we finally get a good screen? (P50 4K)

2016-06-18, 18:37 PM

wrote:

Must say that I am still considering getting a P70 but I would really like to get that "I paid top dollar but I got top value and quality" first like with old ThinkPads.

My P70 is built BETTER than my W520 in almost every way. The keyboard has no bounce and has excellent feel,, the 4K IPS display is almost as good as a separate monitor (vs the TN screen on the W520), I have RAID 1 ( 2 x 512GB PCIe-NVME), a Samsung 1TB 850 Pro installed in the 2.5" bay, more ports than I can use right now, the touchpad works MUCH better than what was on my W520, and 64GB of RAM. Of course, I would have preferred to be able to have the same kind of keyboard that was on the W520 instead of the current variety, but time marches on and that is what everyone else is using. I'm running Windows 10-64, I can do photo and video editing as long as I want without the CPU throttling down (nor the GPU for that matter). And, most importantly, I don't require special trays, sponges, etc like the P50 for everything to work.

 

I believe that the early teething issues are now behind the P70 (my first P70 had a bad backlight screen, but the replacement  system screen is perfect). One does, of course, have to get accustomed to the overall weight of the system (around 8 lbs with the laptop and 230W power brick).


 


P53 XEON 2276 BIOS 1.28 OLED UHD 4K Multi-touch display, 96GB RAM, RTX5000, RAID 1, 1TB x 2 Samsung PM981, 1TB PM981, WWAN
P70 XEON 1505, BIOS 2.35, 4k Display, 64GB, M3000M NVIDIA GPU, RAID1 1TB Samsung PM981 PCIe-NVMe SSD x 2, 2x Samsung 850 Pro 1TB SSD. EM7455 WWAN
P1. BIOS 1.25,Xeon Processor, 4k UHD IPS multi-touch display, 32GB, PM981 1TB x 2, RAID1

I am not an employee nor an agent of Lenovo.
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2032 Posts

11-28-2007

Czech Republic

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Re: When do we finally get a good screen? (P50 4K)

2016-06-19, 11:59 AM

Notebookcheck Upcoming Reviews

  • Lenovo ThinkPad P50 (4K)

 

Meanwhile Dell Precision 7510 (4K IGZO) Mobile Workstation Review

Contrast: 1050:1

85.68% AdobeRGB

The display backlight flickers at 198.4 Hz (Likely utilizing PWM) Flickering detected at a brightness setting of 29 % and below.

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ThinkPad (1992 - 2012): R51, X31, X220, Tablet 8.
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123 Posts

01-30-2016

Denmark

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Re: When do we finally get a good screen? (P50 4K)

2016-06-29, 20:02 PM

I'm looking forward to the 4K panel review by Notebookcheck. As it is likely just a review update, it probably won't take long before it is released.

 

By the way, someone at thinkpad-forum.de has also made a nice thread on the display subject https://thinkpad-forum.de/threads/199472-1080p-dunkel-schlechte-Farbtreue-4k-PWM-%28-%29-und-schlechter-Blickwinkel-stimmt-das

Luckily it turns out that the thread starter was happy with the display he received - in the same class as his high-end Eizo monitor. However, his opinion that there always will be people that are trying to find errors using a magnifying glass and sending things back and forth 20 times tells me more about this person's empathic abilities than I wanted to know.

 

In my case I have sent my laptop in once to Teleplan, they do see the problem and are awaiting level 2 Lenovo support to pickup the laptop for service. The display behaves similary to the one shown in the pictures compared with the Dell - many leagues from Eizo class. Lenovo level 2 support still hasn't picked up the laptop from Teleplan after 2½ months.

 

So with that in mind, hopefully our dear friends probably now have a better understanding of the problem. I love/loved everything else about the P50, but one doesn't need a magnifying glass to see how awful the 4K screen was.

 

If someone think they have got a good 4K display, then please enlighten us all and post the manufacture week/year of the Sharp display (can be read with Aida64). I have previously requested satisfied/unsatisfied people to do this, but except for one or two replies nothing happened. It would help us all, as it might be able to show large variances between batches and pinpoint potential bad ones.

 

Thanks for reading.

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15 Posts

06-26-2016

Germany

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Re: When do we finally get a good screen? (P50 4K)

2016-06-29, 21:05 PM

wrote:

I'm looking forward to the 4K panel review by Notebookcheck. As it is likely just a review update, it probably won't take long before it is released.

 

By the way, someone at thinkpad-forum.de has also made a nice thread on the display subject https://thinkpad-forum.de/threads/199472-1080p-dunkel-schlechte-Farbtreue-4k-PWM-%28-%29-und-schlechter-Blickwinkel-stimmt-das

Luckily it turns out that the thread starter was happy with the display he received - in the same class as his high-end Eizo monitor. However, his opinion that there always will be people that are trying to find errors using a magnifying glass and sending things back and forth 20 times tells me more about this person's empathic abilities than I wanted to

know.

 

Yep, this person is me. Only different Nickname. No worries about my empathic abilities, only because I have my own Opinion. I'm fine, thanks. And I don't wanted to bother anybody with that thread, I was also afraid if I should buy the P50 or not. So please don't take some sentences to serious. It was a hard decision with XPS, MBP and that one here. Also FHD or UHD. And I'm glad, I made the decision for the P50 with 4k. I'm working a lot with different Displays, Computers or Laptops and there was always one matter that was bothering me. But I learned that it's my tool to work with and I don't wanna be get stressed from a device.

 

But this is my Opinion. I've you or anybody else thinks different, thats alright. And I've my display would be streaked by a very big Orange/Yellow tint or/and awful bleeding I would also exchange it. And as I remember correctly I told that guys that I'm very happy with my 4k Display and it is great, thats true. The illumination is good (thats what I wrote) but it's not perfect. I reviewed now the illumination of the MBP (2015) which is to my left and okay, this one is absolutely perfect. Also much better as the MBP (2010) in the house. I've I would argue that the P50 is a slightly more expensive machine and yes, the illumination isn't as good in comparison to the MBP, than you can criticize that. 

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15 Posts

06-17-2016

United States of America

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Re: When do we finally get a good screen? (P50 4K)

2016-06-29, 22:14 PM

Got my P50 late last week.  My first impressions of the screen is that, other than the brightness shift, it is definitely one of the better 4K laptop screens I have either used or seen in person (my opinion at least).  I definitely do see the shift everyone is talking about, which is annoying, but from a color and unifromity perspective (on a white or grey screen) it is one of the best I have seen.  I see the slight shadowing on the sides on a white screen looking straight on, but it is far better than the pinkish or blueish color gradients I have seen on the XPS 15 and other IGZO screens.  I find those gradients incredibly distracting especially when working on an Excel spreadsheet.

 

Screen's manufacturing date is week 36 / 2015.

 

Brightness could be better, but it's pretty much the same brightness as my Macbook 12 with the brightness set to one or two notch below the maximum (even tested it with Xrite iProfiler).  I can confirm that PWM is used at 40% and below (using the phone's camera to test).

 

As far as the birghtness shifting, almost all Sharp IGZO screen have this shift.  I saw it on the XPS 15 and confirmed again when I popped into the Microsoft store over the weekend, though it's marginally not as bad.  I even noticed this on the last few generations of the iPhones.  I am wondering if it's more noticeable on the P50 because of it being matte.  I am starting to think the bonded glass helps with this on the XPS and Macbook Pros (though this is doubtful).  This is definitely a Sharp issue, hopefully they get their act together.  At least on the P50, if you sit back a bit, the shifting decreases.

 

Other than that, I would say it is one of the best laptops in the market today.  I have come to terms laptop screen will never be perfect.  Wish it was a tad smaller, at least width wise.  It's literally <0.25" wider than the bags that I have. :)

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