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125 Posts

01-30-2016

Denmark

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Re: When do we finally get a good screen? (P50 4K)

2016-06-16, 18:34 PM

Thanks for posting the comparison images.It is much appreciated. I was expecting the Dell to have a better display, but not the difference to be THAT huge.

They actually pretty well describe the issue with my 4K P50 display too: Annoyingly narrow viewing angles - not regarding contrast ratio, but brightness drop-off, like some sort of privacy filter has been applied. RIghtmost part of the screen appears much darker, and magically turns brighter when you position youself to the rightmost part of the laptop.

 

The Dell screen appears very white in comparison - is it 9300K ? The P50 is 7500K in all pictures, right?

 

I can't believe Lenovo is trying to pull this off in their top-range laptop, when Dell clearly has no problem with their screens by comparison. That's a good reason for sure to ditch Thinkpads altogether.

Not a single comment from Lenovo engineering/technicians/staff of why they opted for this solution. They should have been aware of what the competition is using or will use. Not a single comment on how they plan to fix this. This is completely unacceptable.

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2032 Posts

11-28-2007

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Re: When do we finally get a good screen? (P50 4K)

2016-06-16, 20:40 PM

wrote:

Dell XPS 15 UHD and Lenovo P50 UHD side-by-side comparison shots. I had to do this quickly so I didn't get all the shots I wanted. 

Excellent work ! The P50 display is even more terrible I ever expected :smileymad: But I am sure it is $10 cheaper than the Dell one. I am wondering how is possible to manufacture such terribly looking display in 2016. You don't need any calibration tool to discover it. It is ugly at first glance.

 

Please make an alternative picture gallery outside Lenovo forum in case these pictures are deleted by Lenovo.

 

 

__________________________________
ThinkPad (1992 - 2012): R51, X31, X220, Tablet 8.
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200 Posts

06-14-2016

Sweden

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Re: When do we finally get a good screen? (P50 4K)

2016-06-17, 0:36 AM

The really sad story here isn't only that the LCD is bad but the fact that a machine this good (and expensive) is wasted by such a bad LCD panel. I just can't imagine what Lenovo was thinking here. For me, who probably wouldn't even  use the build in LCD that much, it makes me very hesitant to buy thinking "If they have done this, what more have they done to cut costs"?

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15 Posts

06-17-2016

United States of America

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Re: When do we finally get a good screen? (P50 4K)

2016-06-17, 1:46 AM

Just ordered the P50 myself a couple of days ago.  Will let you guys know how it turns out.

 

One thing to note, almost all 3K-4K Sharp IGZO displays I have seen have some sort of problem with viewing angles and unformity.  I went through two Dell XPS 15's and they both had pretty significant uniformity problems (half the screen had a different color temperatures) and viewing angle issues.  They also had some other quality control issues as well like keyboard keys sticking.  Also tried out the Razer Blade 2016, which also had some uniformity issues, though that's not the reason I returned it (major electric noise).  

 

My Macbook Retina 12" loses brightness looking left and right as well.  I think these are all made by Sharp.

 

Will see how the P50 pans out...

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200 Posts

06-14-2016

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Re: When do we finally get a good screen? (P50 4K)

2016-06-17, 8:37 AM

I think that the problem with "my screen looks bad if I look at it from the side" is exaggerated. A bigger problem would be that overall brightness is to low (I like my screens at leat not to look dull) and that you get get viewing angles problems even just sitting in front of it. That might be ok for a 40" desktop monitor, but not for a 15" laptop monitor at normal viewing distance.

 

I totally agree that Dells has problem with QC, in fact, I would probably rate it as one of the worst companies I've ever dealt with in this regard. Sad to see that Lenovo also seem to have these problems, something that the original IBM ThinkPads didn't. They might have looked a bit boring and perhaps wasn't the thinest and lightest, but quality and durability was top notch. Just like with Apples laptops...

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11-28-2007

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Re: When do we finally get a good screen? (P50 4K)

2016-06-17, 17:45 PM

wrote:

I think that the problem with "my screen looks bad if I look at it from the side" is exaggerated.

It isn't. It might be tolerable in a $400 low-end laptop but not a $4000 workstation. There is no technology limitation to manufacture proper display component in 2016 (it was even possible ten years ago as well, T60p UXGA display is a good example). It is just another Lenovo attempt to trick customers using inappropriate low cost display component to maximize short-term profit by cheapening the ThinkPad brand. Fortunately it has limits and does not work.

 

Given amonut of P50/P70 serious issues (BIOS lockup, driver BSOD, boot issues etc) I think the P series is spoiled to consider it for a serious use. There is probably no laptop on market that can act as a reliable PC workstation replacement wihout so much keyboard/display compromises these days (gaming models are actually very close). Sad result of cutting costs.

__________________________________
ThinkPad (1992 - 2012): R51, X31, X220, Tablet 8.
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125 Posts

01-30-2016

Denmark

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Re: When do we finally get a good screen? (P50 4K)

2016-06-17, 17:57 PM

wrote:

I think that the problem with "my screen looks bad if I look at it from the side" is exaggerated. A bigger problem would be that overall brightness is to low (I like my screens at leat not to look dull) and that you get get viewing angles problems even just sitting in front of it.


Maybe exaggerated, but what else would the point be of advertising a 178 degree viewing angle? Besides, the Lenovo screen actually isn't low in brightness. If you measure with a colorimeter, which is always 100% perpendicular to the screen, you'll obtain a very uniform mearurement within 90% of 265 nits. But when you move your head by 10-15 degrees off axis compared to the screen, you have already lost a noticeable amount of brightness. So that's why it looks dull.

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2032 Posts

11-28-2007

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Re: When do we finally get a good screen? (P50 4K)

2016-06-17, 18:08 PM

wrote:

Besides, the Lenovo screen actually isn't low in brightness.

Some people like me are actually interested in lowest possible brightness without disturbing issues like low PWM frequency or distorted colors. Again, some of these gaming laptops (for half price of P series) provides excellent 20 cd/m2 value without such issues, plus better color space coverage than any P series display.

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06-17-2016

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Re: When do we finally get a good screen? (P50 4K)

2016-06-17, 18:22 PM

wrote:

wrote:

I think that the problem with "my screen looks bad if I look at it from the side" is exaggerated.

It isn't. It might be tolerable in a $400 low-end laptop but not a $4000 workstation. There is no technology limitation to manufacture proper display component in 2016 (it was even possible ten years ago as well, T60p UXGA display is a good example). It is just another Lenovo attempt to trick customers using inappropriate low cost display component to maximize short-term profit by cheapening the ThinkPad brand. Fortunately it has limits and does not work.

 

Given amonut of P50/P70 serious issues (BIOS lockup, driver BSOD, boot issues etc) I think the P series is spoiled to consider it for a serious use. There is probably no laptop on market that can act as a reliable PC workstation replacement wihout so much keyboard/display compromises these days (gaming models are actually very close). Sad result of cutting costs.


Sad part is I think this is an industry problem.  Other than Lenovo always have lower brightness backlight and seems to be using PWM, every other PC manufacturer has the same LCD problem.  Read a few of the HP Dreamcolor display reviews and they had problems as well.

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125 Posts

01-30-2016

Denmark

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Re: When do we finally get a good screen? (P50 4K)

2016-06-17, 18:25 PM

I agree that low brightness without PWM is a "must" in a laptop. I thought he was talking about how the P50 looked dark/dull. :)

I highly doubt you'll find higher than AdobeRGB color coverage displays in other notebooks than the P50/similar notebooks. If you do, I don't see the use at all in non-standardized "wide-gamut" displays. If they don't cover a standardized color space like sRGB, AdobeRGB, DCI-P3 or BT.2020 then they'll bring you more trouble than help.

 

 

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