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36 Posts

11-19-2016

Canada

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change P70 OS from Windows 10 Pro 1809 64-bit to Windows 7 Pro SP1 64-bit

2019-02-11, 21:56 PM

OK people ... I've f'n had it with Win 10 ...

 

Microsoft has updated it to a standstill ... and this PC should be a powerhouse!

 

I don't know exactly what the Win 10 OS is so busy doing (can't be good, for me, anyways), however, at this point I just want away from Microsoft's 'advancements in the art'.

 

What used to be instant resumption from Sleep and acceptance of my fingerprint now takes forever (I have to wake it and then walk away and do something else for a few minutes or so ... ) ... any browsing activity while streaming or video playback is occuring results in an electronic sound-effect audio feedback howl and video choppiness / freezing.

 

I have countless browser (take your pick, I got 'em all) file download failures (completely unrelated to ZA Free AntiVirus + Firewall 15.3.064.17729) ...  Save / Save As dialogs and File Explorer windows that skip around when trying to choose a location or scroll ...

 

 ... all that and the Synaptics Pointing Device Driver erratic functionality (over-sensitivity / stickiness / freezing) have made this P70 close to unuseable.  The impact on my productivity is intolerable and unacceptable.

 

I have scanned this system with up-to-date def.'s in ZA Free AntiVirus + Firewall 15.3.064.17729, updated Spybot S & D 2.7.65.0 & updated Malwarebytes (Free) 3.3.1 ... nothing untoward is found.  I also run updated SpywareBlaster 5.5 .

 

Lenovo promised to fix a Synaptics Pointing Device Driver Vulnerability by 2019-01-31, however, that has seemingly not happened.

 

My attempts to load older Synaptics Pointing Device Drivers (that DSperber here was kind enough to offer and supply to me) are met with Microsoft Win 10's unfailing predisposition to thwart the operator and refuse to replace the most current driver version, 19.3.4.219, Device Manager reported Driver Date: 18-Oct-18 (Last Updated 2019-01-10, per Lenovo matrix at the above ' ... Vulnerability' link).

 

 ... I don't care anymore ... f' it ... how do I load Win 7 Pro SP1 64-bit on an installed, empty SSD on this P70 if I already own a Win 7 Pro SP1 licence on a different standalone, personal use PC?

 

Or, is there some relatively painless way to load Win 7 on this P70, possibly as some form of post-warranty Lenovo appeasement downgrade of the OS?

 

I do have Win 7 DVD installation media ('OEM System Builder Pack', 'WIN PRO 7 SP1 64BIT 30PK DSP30OEI 611 DVD') from, and, in use on, another (custom-built mini-tower system - builder no longer in business) PC ... can I extend its' use to this P70?

 

Thanks, FFF

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2826 Posts

06-13-2013

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Re:change P70 OS from Windows 10 Pro 1809 64-bit to Windows 7 Pro SP1 64-bit

2020-05-24, 17:29 PM

There is currently this other thread ongoing right now, dealing with dual-boot of a P50.  In this case Win7 was pre-installed and the owner wanted to add Win10 ability.  I've chimed in on that thread with significant contributions, which I think you'll find quite useful.

 

One  thing to mention.  When I posted on this thread back in 2019 and touted the Gigabyte utility as a way of adding the required USB 3.0 drivers (and also even the NVMe drivers) to a standard Win7 retail install media which did not originally contain the necessary modern drivers needed to install Win7 to a Skylake machine (and possibly to an M.2 NVMe target drive), I had only speculated about the subject of the license  key.  I was unsure (having never experimented for myself back at that time) whether or not the Win7 installer would be able to read the imbedded OEM Windows license key (good for Win10 as well as Win7) installed in the machine hardware by Lenovo.

 

Well, as I have now confirmed (through my own experimenting) in that other current thread, as long as you run the Win7 installer in UEFI MODE, the built-in hardware OEM license key for your particular P70 will in fact get picked up automatically at the start of the install.  You will NOT be prompted to enter a license key. And the very same OEM license key is really for Win10 on the P70, with inherent licensing downgrade rights to also run Win7 on the same machine... including dual-boot simultaneously.

 

So, how does one get the Win7 installer to run in UEFI MODE (as opposed to "Legacy mode", which will NOT automatically pick up the OEM license code but will instead require you to manually enter a valid retail Win7 license code at the start of the install)?

 

Two things you must do:

 

(1) you must target your Win7 install to a GPT drive, not MBR

 

(2) you must be booting from a bootable USB flash drive that has been created such that there is an EFI System partition present, i.e. the bootable USB flash drive itself is also partitioned as GPT.

 

So assuming you have created an updated Win7 installer ISO file (say using the Gigabyte utility, or using something like the INTEGRATE7 method described in this thread on SevenForums) you can use the RUFUS utility to create a GPT-partitioned bootable USB flash media from that ISO file.  You configure the options in RUFUS to specify (a) UEFI target system, and (b) GPT partitioning of the USB flash drive being created. 

 

Then like magic, your new bootable USB flash drive with your updated Win7 installer on it (a) will install Win7 to a GPT target drive, and (b) will have support for USB mouse/keyboard during the Win7 install and afterwards will also have USB 3.0 support in the resulting Win7, and (c) will automatically pick up the built-in OEM license key from the hardware.

 

As I mention in that other thread, in order to run Win7 on a P70 you must have the BIOS set to CSM=YES (in the Startup tab).  You can have either BIOS/Legacy set to UEFI ONLY or BOTH, but I recommend UEFI ONLY. This is perfectly compatible with both Win10 and Win7 in a dual-boot environment, as long as both Win10 and Win7 are installed to GPT target drives.

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377 Posts

10-20-2008

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Re: change P70 OS from Windows 10 Pro 1809 64-bit to Windows 7 Pro SP1 64-bit

2019-02-13, 4:38 AM

I cannot imagine that this would a a problem to do -- it will depend mostly on your current configuration and whether you are prepared to wipe a storage device, add a new one or attempt to downgrade in-place your existing installation (sounds like that is neither feaasible, since I gather that you have no Win 7 onboard to roll-back to).

 

I run my P70 with 2 NVMe drives, one configured for Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 and the other, Windows 10 Pro x64 with dual-boot capability.  Also installed are the factory-supplied SATA DVD writer and 1 TB SATA HDD.  Over the course of a couple of years, I replaced one of the Lenovo NVMe drives with a larger, retail Samsung 970 Pro, then re-installed both operating systems from distributions--Win 7 from a Lenovo-supplied USB stick;  Win10 was downloaded from Microsoft. 

 

Be advised that Windows 7 can be a bear, though, IF  you are installing on NVMe drives and do not have the authentic Lenovo DVD or USB stick -- Win 7 distros  pre-date NVMe technology and normally did not ship with a driver for this type of hardware, making setup impossible --  adding same to the installation media by hand is a major pain (at least to me).   There are postings from 2015 or thereabouts buried in this ThinkPad P series Community site which explain the process; you would need to search dilligently to find the instructions and hopefully the necessary driver files are still posted online to support this.

 

As long as you have the right hardware (SATA drive and CD reader)  and are sure they are working properly, legitimate licenses and media with keys, I believe you should be able to easily create a fresh install for either OS (or both).  If you have NVMe, Lenovo does have, somewhere in inventory, Windows 7 recovery media distributions with all necessary drivers-- you might be able to persuade either the Parts or Customer Service deparments to make one available.  The SKU for the Win 7 DVD set I have on my desk is:  00XE851 -- but I'm not positive that it is correct, as I have not had occasion to use this particular set of disks. 

 

At least this might be a place to start.  Best of luck.

 

______________________________________________
P70, Xeon 1505 CPU, 64 GB ECC RAM, Samsung 970 Pro 1 TB + 512 GB NVMe Drives, 1 TB HDD, DVD-RW, 4 K Display, NVIDIA Quadro M4000
W700 model 2757-CTO (8 GB RAM, Crucial MX-100 SSD + Hitachi TravelStar 1 TB 7200 RPM Drives, Bluray R/W, NVIDIA Quadro FX3700M, WUXGA); Windows 7 Ultimate SP-1, W700 Mini-Dock
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36 Posts

11-19-2016

Canada

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Re: change P70 OS from Windows 10 Pro 1809 64-bit to Windows 7 Pro SP1 64-bit

2019-02-13, 17:56 PM

Thanks for stepping up practical ...

 

Your comments about Win 7 Pro 64-bit compatibility with NVMe drives is highly relevant ...

 

I have two SAMSUNG 1 TB NVMe SSD drives on my P70 ... one is the Win 10 boot drive, the other is empty and formatted NTFS (GUID Partition Table [GPT]) ... it will be the target of my Win 7 installation ... in order to have dual boot capability (selected from BIOS on boot-up?  or is there some easier way to accomplish a boot-up OS choice?) as you do.

 

My other PC, a Win 7 Pro SP1 64-bit mini-tower, was built and configured to boot from a Samsung SSD 840 Series ... with a conventional Seagate HDD as my D drive for the bulk of my program installations and data ... when the Seagate **bleep** the bed, I went to two Samsung SSD 850 EVO 1TB drives, configured RAID 1, to replace it.

 

So, NCIX.com (no longer in business up here in Canada) figured out how to get Win 7 to play nice with the 840 Series ... I will cross that bridge when I get there ... I know it is doable.

 

My larger concern is, if I cannot obtain Lenovo Win 7 Pro SP1 64-bit installation media (by whatever means, download, or ?) in some form of a post-warranty appeasement measure from them, then I need to figure out if I can have two Win 7 installations (standalone OS installations on two different machines) derived from the one system builder licence I own (I looked for a SKU # like yours on my DVD box / packaging ... there are a lot of different #'s, however, I do not see one matching that format) ... when I introduced the two new Samsung 850 EVO's on the mini-tower machine, I do recall an authentication hurdle ... that was passed successfully ... however, I would not want to render the mini-tower unusable by virtue of failed authentication when trying to install Win 7 to the P70 machine.  This latter issue should be resolvable prior to the installation attempt ... I just haven't found the correct reference(s) yet ... apples and oranges and all that.

 

Thanks again for the help ... FFF

 

1014PST13FEB19 edit: well, it looks like installation can only be performed on one PC ... if Lenovo doesn't come through, I may have to shell out $68.99CAD ... to be rid of Win 10!

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14 Posts

01-27-2019

Australia

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Re: change P70 OS from Windows 10 Pro 1809 64-bit to Windows 7 Pro SP1 64-bit

2019-02-14, 9:09 AM

Just a query to the mods - a post in this forum about Linux got shifted to the OS forum pretty darn quick a few days ago. Why is it posts about Windows are not also moved?

Matt.
ThinkPad P1: i7-8850H, P2000, FHD, 32GB, 512GB.
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377 Posts

10-20-2008

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Re: change P70 OS from Windows 10 Pro 1809 64-bit to Windows 7 Pro SP1 64-bit

2019-02-14, 13:20 PM
When I purchased my P70, there was an option for "Windows 7 via downgrade rights, " which is what I specified. Consequently, it was possible during setup to select either 7 or 10, with same internal key as delivered in firmware. You might try contacting CS and discussing you options -- perhaps the embedded key might be all you need for Win 7.
______________________________________________
P70, Xeon 1505 CPU, 64 GB ECC RAM, Samsung 970 Pro 1 TB + 512 GB NVMe Drives, 1 TB HDD, DVD-RW, 4 K Display, NVIDIA Quadro M4000
W700 model 2757-CTO (8 GB RAM, Crucial MX-100 SSD + Hitachi TravelStar 1 TB 7200 RPM Drives, Bluray R/W, NVIDIA Quadro FX3700M, WUXGA); Windows 7 Ultimate SP-1, W700 Mini-Dock
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2826 Posts

06-13-2013

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Re: change P70 OS from Windows 10 Pro 1809 64-bit to Windows 7 Pro SP1 64-bit

2019-02-14, 18:14 PM

I'm not sure that a "retail" Win7 install DVD can make use of the built-in machine license key that is available through UEFI.  I do know that when I decided to install Win10 as a second bootable Windows onto my own P70 which had been purchased with Win7 pre-installed, I was surprised to discover that the Win10 installer automatically read that machine license key from the UEFI BIOS, without prompting me to enter any product key as I'd always had to do when installing Win7 in the past.

 

I am of the opinion that if the P70 BIOS Startup options are set to "UEFI ONLY" (rather than "BOTH") as well as "CSM=YES" (which I believe is required to run Win7), that even a properly built Win7 installation USB media (set up for UEFI and GPT partitioning) will also read the imbedded machine license key from UEFI BIOS, and not prompt for or require a manually entered retail license key (which of course would not be usable for more than one machine).  I haven't proven this by firsthand experimentation, but my hunch is that it could work fine based on how the Win10 installer just picked up the machine license key from UEFI BIOS and never asked me for it.

 

Of course it's also true that the original Win7 install DVD or ISO cannot be used as-is to install Win7 on a Skylake machine, because this hardware requires built-in USB 3.0 support for USB mouse/keyboard.  The Win8/8.1 and Win10 installers come with USB 3.0 support built into them, but the old Win7 installer does not.  So you have to create new Win7 installation media (most conveniently on a bootable USB drive) by ADDING the needed USB 3.0 driver.

 

Same story with built-in support missing for NVMe drives as targets for the Win7 install.  Again, you have to ADD the needed NVMe driver to the Win7 install media, as part of of producing new updated bootable USB flash drive that can be used to install Win7 to an NVMe target.

 

This topic has been discussed in many threads here, so for convenience I quote from my recent post on one of those threads as to how to build new usable Win7 installation bootable USB media through the "Gigabyte utility" provided several years ago to Gigabyte users who wanted to install Win7 on Gigabyte's Skylake motherboards.

 

===============================================================

 

The easiest and most reliable way to create usable bootable USB media to install Win7 with the required USB 3.0 driver (and optionally also the required NVMe drivers) present is to use the Gigabyte USB Installation utility program, developed several years ago to support their own users who'd bought Gigabyte motherboards based on the Intel 100 Series chipset. 

 

The Gigabyte utility is available from the Gigabyte download site, scrolling down on the page and expanding the "Utilities" category at the bottom.  Inside of the expanded "Utilities" group the utility program you want is described here as: "Windows USB Installation Tool, (Note) Support Intel 100/200/X299 series motherboards. OS: Windows 7 64bit,Windows 7 32bit."

 

The direct link to the utility on that page is here.

 

You simply run the utility, specify the source Win7 installer (either CD/DVD or mounted ISO file), specify the output device (e.g. 8GB or larger USB flash drive), and check USB 3.0 driver and optionally NVMe driver.  You should uncheck the third "packages" box, which will for some reason automatically click on if you check the NVME second box.  The utility will slipstream the missing requested drivers along with the original Win7 media into a new bootable USB flash drive that you can then use to install Win7 to a Skylake or newer machine.

 

 

IMPORTANT NOTE: after you download the ZIP file, before unzipping it you must turn off the BLOCKED security flag that is present.  Unless you first remove the security flag before unzipping, the result of unzipping will be to prevent the expanded files from being accessible when you actually run the Gigabyte utility (which also is one of the files imbedded in the ZIP file), and it will end abnormally with an error message about "unable to add drivers...".

 

To solve the problem right-click on the ZIP file, select Properties, and you will see the Security item at the bottom of the General tab.  Push the UNBLOCK button, then APPLY/OK, and now you are free to unzip this ZIP file.  All of the expanded files will now be perfectly readable by the Gigabyte utility, and the process of adding USB 3.0 (and optionally NVMe) drivers to the original Win7 CD/DVD or ISO installer media to create new output bootable USB flash drive will run to normal completion.

 

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01-13-2008

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Re: change P70 OS from Windows 10 Pro 1809 64-bit to Windows 7 Pro SP1 64-bit

2019-02-14, 19:18 PM

About activating '7 on a machine with downgrade rights: I went through this exercise with an X1Y G1 - selected partly for this experiment.

 

My observation - based on a single sample - an install from "clean" MS media (with USB 3.0 and NVMe drivers added) will require activation.  Install from Lenovo preload media (or recovery media) specific to the laptop model will activate automatically.

 

I was able to activate a clean install of 7 Pro with the 7 Pro OEM key from the sticker on my T420.  That was a bit of a surprise, but convenient.  It's worked to activate clean installs on several other Lenovo ThinkPads.

 

MS provides a way to activate a downgrade '7 "clean" install - but it's rather fussy: Run the install (w/media modified to actually be able to install) and then attempt activation with a Win 7 retail key THAT IS ALREADY IN USE ELSEWHERE.  This is required for two reasons: 1) a real key is needed to get far enough into the activation process to be offered phone activation, and 2) if the key isn't already in use elsewhere it will be "consumed" by this install, and wasted.

 

My test was done some time ago.  It's possible MS has changed the rules...  And yes, in this situation, if a UEFI install, CSM support is required.

 

FWIW,

Z.


The large print: please read the Community Participation Rules before posting. Include as much information as possible: model, machine type, operating system, and a descriptive subject line. Do not include personal information: serial number, telephone number, email address, etc.


The fine print: I do not work for, nor do I speak for Lenovo. Unsolicited private messages will be ignored - questions and answers belong in the forum so that others may contribute and benefit. ... GeezBlog

 

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511 Posts

12-24-2011

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Re: change P70 OS from Windows 10 Pro 1809 64-bit to Windows 7 Pro SP1 64-bit

2019-02-15, 4:09 AM

Search ebay for legitimate w7 license keys. There is also a chance it will activate without key using the bios stored one.

Download your favourite AIO OEM edition of W7 to save time installing patches and updates.

If you can obtain a lenovo image, great.

 

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36 Posts

11-19-2016

Canada

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Re: change P70 OS from Windows 10 Pro 1809 64-bit to Windows 7 Pro SP1 64-bit

2019-02-15, 15:36 PM

Wow! ... lots of good ideas and advice yesterday ... thank you all for stepping up!

 

I've got a Managed Technical Support Access ticket started on this out-of-warranty P70 to see if there is a legitimate Lenovo-sanctioned software solution to my proposed task.

 

If not, I will fully digest the advice offerred above in this thread and proceed.

 

I'll post back with an update as to what MTSA says, as well as my methodology to install Win 7, once accomplished.

 

Thanks again, FFF

 

0741PST 15FEB19 FFF edit: should have looked at the rest of my other e-mail first ... MTSA says my machine is out of warranty and will close my ticket w/o taking any action ... Lenovo's stature just declined majorly in my view ... there's no way to get at their T.S. resources unless I search for and find the solution I seek myself, which I have done, w/o success.

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11-19-2016

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Re:change P70 OS from Windows 10 Pro 1809 64-bit to Windows 7 Pro SP1 64-bit

2020-05-24, 16:20 PM

OK ... I've finally had enough of Win 10's nonsense ... it has it's own Task Scheduler / Update agenda and is often found running in the mornnig after being put in sleep mode in the evening (I've disabled every 'Wake' setting I can find for the built-in ethernet and Wi-Fi network adapters, as well as taking full advantage of the ability to 'Pause' updates for as long as possible) ... 

 

Today I'm doing the Win 7 Pro SP1 64-bit install on a virtually empty 2nd 1 TB SSD in my P70 (I'll leave Win 10 Pro 64-bit Version 1909 intact on the 1st 1 TB SSD and am shooting for a dual-boot arrangement) ... FYI - three (3) Win 10-created folders pre-exist on the 2nd 1 TB SSD: '$RECYCLE.BIN', 'Recovery' & 'System Volume Information' (I have not tried to back them up elsewhere as they are system-created and past experience has demonstrated that [to me, anyways] that kind of thing generally can't be manipulated successfully ... if they get over-written, too bad, so sad, Win 10 will have to deal with it!) ... as per DSperber's Gigabyte utility methodology ... thank you so much for that ... works slick as can be ... 

 

One point of interest ... zoltanthegypsy ... if you happen to see this new post to my old thread, per your 2019-02-14, 19:18 PM post: "About activating '7 on a machine with downgrade rights ... ", presumably your end-game thought (after the gymnastics) was to ultimately use the machine-stored Win 10 licence key to activate (the downgrade to) Win 7 - right?

 

If I want a dual-boot configuration, I'll have to use a seperate / different licence key for the Win 7 install - right?

 

So, is there anything that will prevent me from simply installing a 30-day free trial version of Win 7 Pro SP1 64-bit on the 2nd 1 TB SSD?  If not, I should be able to then enter the licence key information at any time following full completion of the Win 7 install.

 

Thanks for any further help, advice or insights offered.  FFF

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