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2.5" / Ultrabay options for P71

2017-12-18, 12:58 PM

I finally decided to replace my ageing ThinkPad W530 with a ThinkPad P71

 

The build I have ordered includes 2x 1TB SSD PCIe TLC OPAL2

I am assuming that these are NVMe drives bound to PCIe lanes on the mainboard. 

 

I would like to add (at least) another two more drives to my machine, and I am aware that there are two potential expansion points:

 

a) The main 2.5" drive bay. Having NOT selected a HDD option in my build I expect this to be both empty and available for use

 

b) An "Ultrabay" adapter for the Optical Drive

 

I guess I have a bunch of questions around these:

 

(a) Main 2.5" Drive Bay

Are there any adapters I should expect to need in order to fit a 2.5" SSD?

I have a 2.5" Samsung Evo 840 1TB SSD and would ideally like to put that in the main 2.5" drive bay. Is this going to be simple? Does this bay only support SATA or does it somehow support PCIe connections?

 

(b) Ultra-Bay / Optical Drive

I already have an UltraBay adapter for my W530. Is this going to fix the P70 or will I need a new one?

I am aware of PCIe format Ultra-Bay adapters. Does this mean there spare PCIe lanes I could leverage or is it not worth it?

(I have a spare Samsung Evo 840 1TB mSATA SSD .. is it worth using this given the slower "mSATA" transfer speeds available? if the Ultra-Bay ONLY provides a SATA connection anyway then I'm guessing there is little point putting a full-on PCIe SSD in there?)

 

Many thanks and appreciated in advance!

Solved! See the solution
ThinkPad W530 | i7-3820QM | 32GB RAM | Quadro K2000M | 3.5 TB SSD
ThinkPad P71 | Xeon E3-1505M v6 | 64 GB DDR4 ECC | Quadro P4000 8GB | 4 TB SSD
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Re: 2.5" / Ultrabay options for P71

2017-12-18, 14:05 PM

Ok having done a bit more digging and reading I found this: ThinkPad P71 - Platform Specifications

 

So it clearly states that the 2.5" drives are just going to be SATA III (6Gb/s)

(and also nicely confirms that the PCIe drives ARE indeed full NVMe (32Gb/s)

 

So I suppose I only really have two questions left:

 

  1. Should I need any adapters (rubber brackets / padding) for the main 2.5" Disk Drive?
  2. What adapter / Ultra-Bay should I purchase for the Optical Disk Drive (ODD)

Regarding Point #2 >> I have seen ThinkPad Mobile Workstation 5.25” Hard Drive Adapter For ODD Bay (UK SITE) suggested on other forum threads for the P70. Is this the same one for the P71?

ThinkPad W530 | i7-3820QM | 32GB RAM | Quadro K2000M | 3.5 TB SSD
ThinkPad P71 | Xeon E3-1505M v6 | 64 GB DDR4 ECC | Quadro P4000 8GB | 4 TB SSD
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Re: 2.5" / Ultrabay options for P71

2017-12-18, 16:10 PM

Optical bay adapter:

https://www3.lenovo.com/us/en/accessories-and-monitors/memory-and-storage/hard-drives/ACCKIT-BO-ThinkPad-P70-HDD-bay-adapter/p/4XH0L67917

 

For 2.5" SATA:

https://www3.lenovo.com/us/en/accessories-and-monitors/memory-and-storage/storage/HDD-BO-ThinkPad-Storage-Kit/p/4XB0L63274?gclid=CjwKCAiA693RBRAwEiwALCc3u0O1b6q6wcc7_q1yURsHSGBWeV49ozp8bbmpztdZyc6Or2MtjFRW1RoCOUsQAvD_BwE&cid=us:sem%7Cse%7Cgoogle%7Cshopping%7C4XB0L63274&ef_id=WDM9cwAABc8q-7za:20171218160751:s

 

The SATA adapter is for P51 or P71 and will have more parts than you need, but it's fairly cheap.

 

The 2.5" SATA drive is limited to 7mm thick to allow air flow.


Rich


I do not respond to requests for private, one-on-one help. Your questions should be posted in the appropriate forum where they may help others as well.

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Re: 2.5" / Ultrabay options for P71

2017-12-18, 19:44 PM

wrote:

I finally decided to replace my ageing ThinkPad W530 with a ThinkPad P71

 

The build I have ordered includes 2x 1TB SSD PCIe TLC OPAL2

I am assuming that these are NVMe drives bound to PCIe lanes on the mainboard. 



Just in passing I mention that there was a question in another thread on this forum regarding considerations for the choice of SSD options available for the P51/P71.  Specifically the question about MLC vs. TLC came up, which are the designations for the 512GB and 1TB offerings from Lenovo.  Apparently it appeared that qualitatively the TLC drives were more intended for READ usage and that its WRITE performance was somewhat less than expected by one user.

 

For your information:

 

MLC vs. eMLC vs. SLC vs. TLC

There are four types of NAND flash, differing in number of P/E cycles per lifetime, and defined by their construction:

  • SLC -- Single Level Cell: the most expensive, longest lived (high P/E), and generally fastest. Bits are stored only as 2 voltage levels, or a "1" or "0." In SLC less data is stored per cell, so the per unit storage cost is higher.
  • MLC -- Multi-Level Cell: is consumer grade and used in phones, cameras, and USB sticks. The stored charge in MLC may be interpreted as a variety of values, 0 to 3, or 4 possible states, and may store 2 bits. With shorter lifetimes, usually 10x less than SLC, the advantage of this memory is that the cost is 2- 4x less than SLC, but with lower write speeds. MLC typically uses some form of error correction code per block.
  • eMLC -- Enterprise (grade) Multi-Level Cell: is MLC with longer life, usually because of an advanced controller operating the cell and error recovery techniques, construction density, or some combination of the two. Violin has an interesting explanation of the practical differences between NAND types here.
  • TLC -- Triple Level Cell: championed by Samsung, TLC has higher power and error correction requirements, and higher wear levels. TLC is targeted at environments with predominant read uses, and has not been commonly used. 

 

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Re: 2.5" / Ultrabay options for P71

2017-12-19, 11:41 AM
Ok interesting. My heaviest use will be READ so seems TLC will do me nicely.

Either way its going to be streets ahead of my SATA II / SATA III drives I use right now ;)
ThinkPad W530 | i7-3820QM | 32GB RAM | Quadro K2000M | 3.5 TB SSD
ThinkPad P71 | Xeon E3-1505M v6 | 64 GB DDR4 ECC | Quadro P4000 8GB | 4 TB SSD
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  • Message 6 of 13

Re: 2.5" / Ultrabay options for P71

2018-03-12, 22:31 PM

Dear, i'm the owner of a lenovo P71 and like what you've tried to do i removed the HDD drive in order to replace it with a samsung which is SSD SATA. When i restarted the computer, it was not able to reboot on the installed ssd. What i did wrong? It is not possible to replace the HDD from Main pci slot with my Samsung SSD EVO? SHould i invest into an optical bay adaptater in order to make it works?

Thanks you a lot for your help.

Regards

cd

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Re: 2.5" / Ultrabay options for P71

2018-03-13, 1:56 AM

wrote:

Dear, i'm the owner of a lenovo P71 and like what you've tried to do i removed the HDD drive in order to replace it with a samsung which is SSD SATA. When i restarted the computer, it was not able to reboot on the installed ssd. What i did wrong?

Please provide a bit more detail.

 

Did you only have one internal drive in your P71, a 2.5" SATA HDD, and you wanted to swap it for a 2.5" SATA SSD?  If so, then this is where Boot Manager and Windows partitions are located, and this is how the machine boots.  If you simply replace this HDD with a brand new empty SSD, you can't expect it to just have all of your previous Windows and data contents on it out of the carton.  You have to go through some type of transfer process from the old HDD to the new SSD.  Was this something you did?

 

Or do you also have one or two M.2 NVMe SSD drives in the M.2 bays?  If so, then Boot Manager and Windows partitions are located on the NVMe0 drive.  Swapping out the 2.5" HDD for a 2.5" SSD should have no effect on booting, since this is simply a "data" drive and not your Windows drive.  Since this thread describes your problem as no longer being able to boot, it seems unlikely that you have M.2 drives.

 

I ask, because if you only had one physical drive in your P71 then that's where Windows is booted from.  You can't simply replace the existing HDD with its several system partitions with a totally blank completely brand new SSD, and expect it to still be bootable.  You need to "clone" all of the partitions from the HDD you are pulling out over to the new SSD you are installing, using something like Macrium Reflect and a straightforward procedure of several steps.

 

So, before you started this project, what were your internal drives in each of the primary 2.5" bay and also the two M.2 bays?

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Re: 2.5" / Ultrabay options for P71

2018-03-13, 8:33 AM

Thank you for your reply/help, this is well appreciated. To give more details i just bought a new P71 which has been delivered with a HDD which is plugged in the main socket/2.5 primary bay. This is the only storage drive which was on this pc when i bought it. I use to works before the P71 with an older lenovo where i installed a SSD samsung EVO 850 which is a sata type drive. On this samsung SSD drive there is my windows and all programs / Files installed. I use to boot the old lenovo on this drive.

I don't have M2 SSD storage drive so P71 M2 slots are emtpy.

What i wanted to do was just to replace the P71 HDD drive from primary 2.5 bay with Windows installed inside by my old SSD Samsung which have windows installed as well with all my programms/Files. So i guess my SSD should be bootable.

But when i replaced it and installed the SSD samsung sata replacing the lenovo P71 HDD in the primary bay , the computer was unable to boot on the Samsung.

This is where i'm stuck. What should i do?

Thank you again for your lights.

CD

 

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Re: 2.5" / Ultrabay options for P71

2018-03-13, 9:32 AM

Well, trying to use a Windows system currently installed on some drive (in your case a Samsung 850 Evo SSD from another machine) is a daunting task, even assuming it can be done.  At the very least there's the old machine's hardware which is implicit in the Windows installed on that old SSD, which is unlikely to be a match for your new P71 hardware.  So at the very least Windows device-discovery would have to dynamically download drivers for the new P71 hardware, and to do that it may have to get to the Internet which itself requires a driver for the new ethernet LAN adapter hardware in the P71, etc., etc.

 

Furthermore, there is an implied Windows activation license key in your old Windows for that old machine.  The P71 UEFI BIOS has its own built-in license key appropriate for Win10 on that machine, but it's been picked up by the Lenovo-installed Win10 that got delivered on the original HDD.  I don't know if can be just automatically picked up dynamically by the old Windows on the old SSD from the old machine that you're trying to use on the P71.

 

I can appreciate your not wanting to go through the complete reinstall of all your software and transferring data from the old SSD to the new P71 Win10 HDD environment, but it's normally the cleanest way to be sure you would do it.  However I have heard of "success" stories doing what you're trying to do, so maybe my skepticism is unwarranted.

 

So back to your problem.  You say "failed to boot".  What does that mean?  Exactly what error message are you getting?

 

Are you able to get into the BIOS Setup utility of your P71 (by pressing the ENTER key when you see the red Lenovo logo)?  Can you then navigate over to the STARTUP tab and down to the BOOT item, and press ENTER to show the list of boot devices?  Is your Samsung SSD shown in the list, high up near the top (should probably be after ATA ATAPI optical drive, and after USB FDD and USB HDD)?  If the Samsung SSD doesn't show in the available devices to boot from, I would say it's not physically installed correctly or connected properly with SATA data/power cables.

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Re: 2.5" / Ultrabay options for P71

2018-03-13, 19:55 PM

Thank you for your reply and you got clearly what i'm trying to do. I have a bunch of program installed and would be a pain do redo the full set up with updates.

When i replaced the HDD with SSD i had lenovo red logo and then it went straight to bios asking to select a disk to boot and showing the samsung.

I can navigate through it and select the samsung but when i click enter to boot from samsung nothing happen and it stay stuck to this bios page asking a disk to boot.

COuld it be that ssd is not compatible with primary main socket?

Thks for your lights

cd

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Re: 2.5" / Ultrabay options for P71

2018-03-13, 20:23 PM

Do you know if your old SSD is partitioned using MBR or GPT?  Either method is usable with drives 2TB or smaller.  Only GPT is appropriate for drives larger than 2TB.

 

With MBR there must be one "active" partition, which is what the BIOS is looking for to actually boot from. This typically small partition "system reserved" partition (typically 100MB for Win7 from scratch, up to 1.4GB in some other environments) is where Boot Manager lives, along with its "boot menu" of bootable OS's you can select from.  Windows itself (either one or more) lives on second (or third, etc.) partitions on the same (or different) physical drive.  Boot Manager completes the boot process based on your choice off of the boot menu, by then starting Windows from the corresponding second (or third, etc.) partition.

 

If there is no "system reserved" partition marked "active" with MBR partitioning then the BIOS has no idea where to go read from that small to get started with Boot Manager.  I would imagine it might "get stuck" as you describe, on that BIOS menu screen asking you to select a device that actually does have a bootable (i.e. "active") partition from which to start the boot process.

 

With GPT partitioning, there is similarly a small "system reserved" partition where Boot Manager lives identified as the "EFI system partition", also sometimes identified as "active & boot".  And again, the one or more Windows you can boot from live in other "system" partitions.  Again, if there's no "EFI system partition" marked as "active & boot" the BIOS has no way to begin the boot process.

 

Do you have a picture of your old SSD drive showing its partitions, e.g. from DISKMGMT.MSC or perhaps from Minitool Partition Wizard Free?  That really is the fundamental question, i.e. whether or not any damage was done to it during its transfer to your P71.

 

If it is showing in the BIOS boot device list then it appears to be physically connected properly.  If it cannot be used to boot from, then there could be some partitioning problem with it.

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Re: 2.5" / Ultrabay options for P71

2018-03-13, 20:38 PM

Enclosed a screenshot of disk mgmt. No idea how the ssd was partitioned. I think you got right the issue, the bios at the beggining try to boot on ssd but ssd cannot boot and is stuck.

Looks hard to solve, seems i will habe to redoi the full install set up...

Thks again for your time and experience. It is well appreciated.

CD

 

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Re: 2.5" / Ultrabay options for P71

2018-03-14, 0:14 AM

You took that screenshot after reinstalling the SSD back in the original machine from which it came?  So you have no problem booting to it in that other machine when you put it back in?

 

Inexplicable.

 

Have you done some manual maintenance to that drive, perhaps using Minitool Partition Wizard or some other product?  I see that the single large C-partition for Windows is also the "active+boot" partition, so Boot Manager lives there.  This is not the usual place where Boot Manager would be, as I mentioned previously, where it is usually in its own small 100MB "system reserved" partition.  At least that's how things would end up looking if you installed either Win7 or Win10 from scratch on a blank new drive.

 

How was this drive created when you had it on its original machine?  Did you install Win10 from scratch?  Win7 and then upgrade?  Did you use an old drive originally partitioned some other way and then upgraded it yourself to combine partitions?

 

It's a bit unusual to see the 351MB "unallocated" on the left side of the drive, as well as the 452MB "unallocated" on the right side of the drive.  That space on the left almost suggest the combination of two smaller partitions which might have originally occupied that combined space:  something like 100MB "system reserved" partition, and then perhaps a "GPT placeholder" partition of 250MB (although this small GPT partition is usually more like only 128MB).  It's strange to see this.

 

And on the right side, 452MB of "unallocated" is again a very small amount of space.  Samsung Magician might use about 10% of the drive to remain unallocated as "over-provisioning" for its own use to theoretically improve drive lifetime or performance, but that would have been 36GB or so, not 452MB.

 

Same with only 796MB for "recovery partition" that seems quite small for anything useful.

 

So, can you describe the lifetime of this drive?  How did you install Windows on it, how did you decide on partitioning, was it every used previously, etc.?

 

Anyway, your screenshot looks good.  I honestly don't know why it wouldn't be at least technically bootable on the P71.

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