02-26-2018 04:38 AM
We have two new Lenovo thinkpad P71, both identical. One of them started to have boot up issue (takes about 2.5 minutes for the first boot up of the day, then any restart during that day will be fine)
So, I have been trying to resolve this issue this past couple of days without success. However, I found out that the BIOS version were different on both machine. Both machine requested to update the BIOS after the initial setup. One of them I updated but the other I didn't.
The Laptop with the updated BIOS has the version 1.17 (which is odd since the latest version on Lenovo website is 1.16)
The laptop that was not updated has the version 1.15 and it does not have the long boot up time issue.
So I was wondering if it was normal to have version 1.17? Also, is it possible and should I go back to version 1.15?
Any help / tips would be appreciated.
02-26-2018 10:37 AM - edited 02-26-2018 10:44 AM
Could be the identical problem as I reported on this other thread a while back, with my P70 and BIOS 2.20/2.21. I am still experiencing the behavior described, so until Lenovo addresses the issue with a BIOS or ECP update I have reverted back to BIOS 2.19 which works perfectly and boots normally and does not exhibit any of the anomalies I talk about in my thread.
Looks like your P71 BIOS README for v1.16 shows the identical fix for USB devices (ostensibly connected through an attached external monitor) which first appeared with P70 BIOS 2.20:
<1.16> UEFI: 1.16 / ECP: 1.07 - (Fix) Fixed an issue where PCI LAN might disappeared on boot menu after SCCM OS deployment. - (Fix) Fixed an issue where system might not boot to OS when attached an external monitor and its USB3 devices. - (Fix) Fixed an issue where system might hang up when restarting.
Here's what the README for my P70 BIOS 2.20 showed:
<2.20> UEFI: 2.20 / ECP: 1.17 - (Fix) Fixed an issue where fan might rotated with max speed due to not reading CPU temperature correctly. - (Fix) Fixed an issue where system might not boot to OS when attached an external monitor and its USB3 devices. - (Fix) Fixed an issue where network boot might happened at reboot after resume from suspend by Wake On LAN.
Does the P71 you are experiencing boot problems with have an attached external USB drive (either powered HDD or inserted flash drive)?
If so, try removing the USB cable for (or simply powering off, if you have a power switch, or removing the inserted USB flash drive) the connected external USB drive. Now, does your booting behavior revert to normal?
With the P70, BIOS 2.20 also came with an updated ECP to 1.17. Since this is when the booting anomalies started (as well as when behavioral problems within the BIOS Setup utility began as well) I don't know whether I should blame BIOS 2.20 (and this USB-related fix) or the new ECP 1.17. Reliable normal BIOS 2.19 still has ECP 1.15.
I see your P71 BIOS 1.16 has the same updated ECP (1.07) as the previous BIOS 1.15 which you say works fine. It was BIOS 1.15 which got the ECP update, as your BIOS 1.14 still had ECP 1.06. So there is this slight difference in our two similar BIOS boot-time behavior defects with the latest BIOS version, since I can possibly put the blame on an updated ECP 1.17 or BIOS 2.20/2.21, whereas for you it looks like the blame can only go to the BIOS 1.15 update.
But there's no denying that for me, the boot-time behavior issues is absolutely related to the presence or absence of an external USB drive. Remove the external drive, and booting is "normal" (although I still have the BIOS Setup utiltiy anomalies with BIOS 2.20/2.21 regardless of whether or not a USB drive is connected or not). That's why I ask if your problem P71 also has a connected "active" external USB drive attached, and if so please try removing it and see if normal booting returns.
02-26-2018 11:06 AM
Sounds like the same problem that I had with the P70. I'm not sure what fixed mine, however. Find the P70 thread about slow boot. Also, try toggling off 'Secure Boot', power off, wait at least 15 seconds, and then re-boot. Then toggle the 'Secure Boot' back on', power off, wait at least 15 seconds, and then re-boot. There may also be other things that toggling may fix.
02-26-2018 12:52 PM
Any BIOS update I do, I always also "reset to BIOS defaults" (not "optimized OS defaults"). This is actually how my P70 looked when it first arrived and with Win7 pre-installed. I didn't have to do anything to facilitate adding Win10 as a second bootable OS, as the default settings supported UEFI and CSM, and thus both Win7 and Win10.
"OS Optimized Defaults" setting [Disabled] case
- UEFI BIOS Update Option
- Secure RollBack Prevention [Disabled]
- Secure Boot
- Secure Boot [Disabled]
- UEFI/Legacy Boot [Both]
- UEFI/Legacy Boot Priority [Legacy First]
- CSM Support [Yes]
Again, my issues with 2.20/2.21 are threefold:
(1) 1-2 minute delay in getting to Boot Manager (or booting to a properly bootable WinPE flash drive or optical CD) when booting the machine (either cold from SHUTDOWN, or restart from Windows), if an external USB drive is present. If no external USB drive is present, Boot Manager is presented within 1-3 seconds, or booting to the bootable CD or USB flash drive starts immediately. With 2.19, Boot Manager is always presented within 1-3 seconds no matter whether an external USB drive is present or not.
I also do have an external monitor connected but no USB drive is connected through the monitor, only through the USB connectors on the P70. The booting anomalies are entirely related to the presence or absence of such USB crives.
(2) Entry into BIOS Setup utility is also subject to 1-2 minute delay if an external USB drive is present and I press ENTER at the Lenovo logo-prompt. There is no such delay with 2.19, and ENTER results in a beep and the intermediate menu offering F1 to enter Setup.
And once the BIOS general tab information was presented, right-arrow over to the STARTUP tab stalled for 1 minute the first time it was tried, with the keyboard no longer functional until that minute elapses (perhaps while the BIOS is trying to investigate all drives present including USB, in order to populate the BOOT list which is shown on the STARTUP tab). With 2.19 right-arrow goes right over to the STARTUP tab without any "stall", and the BOOT list is offered immediately.
Once the minute or so elapses and the STARTUP tab page appears, now left-arrow and right-arrow works just fine. The "stall" appears to be due to whatever the BIOS is doing to populate the BOOT device list, and once it gets populated there is no longer any delay. It doesn't matter whether or not there actually are any external USB drives present which would appear in the BOOT device list, the BIOS appears to be hunting for them no matter, and taking up to a minute to complete that search.
(3) For some reason, exiting the BIOS Setup utility also takes about a minute. Doesn't matter whether I (a) save/restart - F10, or (b) discard/restart - F9, it still takes the BIOS about a minute to do whatever it's doing. This should be pretty much instantaneous (as it has always been, and certainly still is with 2.19), but for some reason no longer is with 2.20/2.21.
02-26-2018 02:12 PM
I had read your post about the boot up issues with your P70, however my problem is a little different. Only the first boot up in the morning takes 2.5 minutes, after that every other restarts are under 20 seconds. When I boot my P71 in the morning, I have nothing plugged in except for my mouse receiver.
So I reverted back to the BIOS v1.15 today, I will wait and see if the issues still persists tomorrow morning.
By the way thank you for sharing your experience and giving me some tips on how to possibly solve this problem.
02-27-2018 03:18 AM
February 27th 2018 update:
First start up (1m45s)
Start up (15s)
Plug in external hard drive, HDMI monitor, USB monitor, power cord
Start up (15s)
As you can see, only the first boot in the morning takes a long time and this morning I had BIOS v1.15 so it does not seem that the BIOS is the issue here.
It's a pain trying to figure out what is causing the issue since I have to wait until the next morning to do another test.
03-01-2018 03:41 AM
So my problem does not seem to be as severe as yours, but after further testing, my boot up time yesterday morning as well as yesterday night was about 2-3 minutes. So I decided to follow your tip and I unplugged everything (even my mice receiver). This morning (March 1st) the boot up time was less than 5 seconds.
So the fact that something is plugged in the usb port (not only a hard drive) could be causing this issue.
Here is what I plan to do in the upcoming days to test whether this is actually the case (let me know if any of this would not be recommended or in your experience, would not help)
1. I decided to exclude all the USB ports from the boot up list (see attached picture)
2. Tomorrow I will boot up the machine with my USB receiver plugged in and see if the issue still persists.
3. If it does, I will try again without anything plugged in
Also, for the boot priority order, is it better to leave the windows boot manager at the top? I currently changed the order and moved my SSD at the top of the list
I will post back here with my results.
03-01-2018 04:45 AM
I'm currently back at 2.19 for my P70 so I can't retry these options without first upgrading again to 2.21 (which of course System Update wants me to do). But I believe I've previously tried the various options you're considering trying yourself, and I'll recount (from memory) what I believe occurred.
(1) It didn't matter what was in the boot device list. Even if I excluded everything except my NVMe0 true boot drive it made no difference. Something else going on detected the presence of the connected USB HDD or USB FDD flash drive and "investigated it" for a minute or more, even though in theory it really had no interest in booting from it because even it it was genuinely bootable my boot device list had excluded it.
With the exact same BIOS boot device setup, simply powering off the USB HDD or removing the USB FDD flash drive eliminated the "investigation" of the now non-existent device.
(2) I have always had my USB mouse receiver plugged in (to a USB port in my external monitor). Never had to remove it in order to get boot time to normal. It was only the bootable USB external devices which have any impact.
I even tried unplugging my external monitor completely, since the README said the culprit logic added with 2.20 was meant to address some issue with USB3 devices plugged into an external monitor. Older monitors might have only USB2 conenctors, but my Eizo does in fact have USB3 connectors (and one of them happens to have my USB2 mouse receiver plugged into it). Again, made no difference. The presence or absence of the external monitor (and inserted USB mouse receiver) was irrelevant. It was only a potentially bootable device which had any impact.
(3) My experience is that if any type of potentially bootable USB drive is connected and powered on (even if it really isn't bootable but only contains "data"), that is what triggers the new behavior. Can be a random USB flash drive of any size, or it can be a powered external USB HDD (e.g. my backup drive)... if it's alive, it will trigger the new BIOS behavior, no matter what the BIOS boot device list contains.
It would be useful if you could confirm what I've described above as giving you the same results with your P71, which in theory received the same "fix" from Lenovo's engineers as on my P70.