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8 Posts

03-11-2019

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Has anyone tried to re-paste the P72?

2019-03-18, 16:54 PM

When running extensive benchmarks, my P72 did not thermal throttle or hit the 90s. I installed Adobe software and got to work. After about an hour or two, I noticed that my P72 became very warm which surprised me as I read these machines stay cool and quiet. At this point I ran a simple benchmark and two cores throttled. 

 

I'm starting to think XEON chips just don't belong in laptops. Has anyone tried to repaste? From what I can gather getting to the CPU and GPU in the P72 may not be a simple task. Has anyone tried?

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10387 Posts

01-02-2010

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Re: Has anyone tried to re-paste the P72?

2019-03-18, 20:50 PM

Certainly, it's your machine and you can do what you want with it, but it's a common story on the internet that you can do a better job of spreading paste than the factory where the machines are made.  I spent some looking at the results from people I think of as the "overclocking crazies" who were testing various methods of spreading paste onto chip dies.  Lines, spots, x-patterns, etc. were all tried.  They used a transparent heatsink to press against the chips so they could see and assess the coverage.  The tiny dot pattern applied to the fan at the factory gave MUCH better results than any of the manual application techniques.  It is also silly to think that a computer maker will try to save $0.10 by using cheap paste on a $3000 computer.

 


Rich


I do not respond to requests for private, one-on-one help. Your questions should be posted in the appropriate forum where they may help others as well.

If a response answers your question, please mark it as the accepted solution.

I am not an employee or agent of Lenovo.
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34 Posts

03-12-2019

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Re: Has anyone tried to re-paste the P72?

2019-03-19, 0:01 AM

I don't think the heat issue is exclusively a CPU or Xeon problem.  I have a P72 with an i7 8750H and it is continually getting hot and the fans go on quite regularly, much more than my previous (ASUS) laptop did.  It's a bit of a let down, but I guess there is not much I can do about it.  I just bought mine and have been using it daily for only a month.

 

Kind regards,

 

tecknot

 

P.S.  If you ask me, it's not worth repasting until the laptop has aged a year or so.  Not sure how much affect the heat will have on this machine, so repasting sooner might not be a bad idea.  I understand repasting can be tricky and the use of a special vise may be necessary particulary for Xeons.

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Re: Has anyone tried to re-paste the P72?

2019-03-19, 3:34 AM

These are 45-watt CPUs.  I would expect the fans to run much of the time the machines are being used.


Rich


I do not respond to requests for private, one-on-one help. Your questions should be posted in the appropriate forum where they may help others as well.

If a response answers your question, please mark it as the accepted solution.

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60 Posts

12-20-2018

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Re: Has anyone tried to re-paste the P72?

2019-03-19, 12:39 PM

If you do a heavy CPU workload for a long time, it's not going to keep cool and quiet.

That's an unrealistic  expectation.

Though an undervolt can help to keep temperatures lower in normal usage and keep higher turbo frequency.

Thunderbolt 3 and connected external monitors also contribute to augment the temps by a few degrees.

Also in my experience, idle temps are a few degrees higher on Windows than Linux, possibly because Windows has more stuff running in the background.

Lenovo ThinkPad P72 - i7-8850H / 48GB DDR4-2666 / 1TB Samsung 970 Evo / 1TB HDD / 17.3" UHD / Intel UHD 630 / Quadro P600 / 99W Battery / Linux distro: openSUSE Tumbleweed
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03-12-2019

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Re: Has anyone tried to re-paste the P72?

2019-03-19, 12:57 PM

That's a good point, Rich.

 

Hi Bobbie, it just so happens that my fans are going off right now and all I am doing is reading the Lenovo forums which seems to be typical.  Perhaps I should try undervolting.

 

Sorry for hijacking your thread, Mindriot.

 

Kind regards,

 

tecknot

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19 Posts

02-05-2019

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Re: Has anyone tried to re-paste the P72?

2019-06-10, 12:25 PM

Has anyone undervolted their P72? I'm curious but completely lack experience

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8 Posts

05-24-2019

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Re: Has anyone tried to re-paste the P72?

2019-06-10, 18:39 PM

I think all this under volting should not be needed, all the W station laptops should be able to run at full load 24/7 with out throttling the CPU through over heating. reducing the voltage can help but its not the long term solution to poorly installed heatsink, with poor thermal paste application.

 

If lenovo choose to use a poor quality thermal paste, with poor application why should the end user have to suffer with a throttling CPU not running at the spec it should. after changing my thermal paste to thermal grizzly i saw very good results to the point i can now run flat out and maintain full turbo boost in single core applications with zero throttling. Even running all cores stress test its now fine and dosnt throttle down like it did before i changed the paste.

 

Its upto lenovo the make sure the thermal paste used is good enough, it should not harden and crack which is common on the thermal paste used on thinkpads. mine was nearly set hard with poor application and visible cracking across the paste used.

 

If you have a new laptop RMA it for thermal issues, dont just put up with it. why should you! all these laptops should run at full spec 24/7

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19 Posts

02-05-2019

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Re: Has anyone tried to re-paste the P72?

2019-06-10, 21:46 PM
I fully agree that they "should" be using the top spec materials... but we all know they aren't :-\
Do I need to remind anyone of all the reports and complaints about the P71? I waited a loooong time after release to order my P72, wanted to hear any reports of throttling complaints.
I have the Xeon 2186 with a base clock of 2.9 and a boost clock of 4.8
Under stable loads on 1/2 the cores I'm seeing 3.4Mhz after running for ~10 minutes.

Whats your definition of throttling? Would you call it anything below 2.9Mhz? or anything below full throttle?

I would like to squeeze the most out of this "mega machine" and considering repasting or trying to undervolt.

Any/all input would be appreciated :)


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8 Posts

05-24-2019

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Re: Has anyone tried to re-paste the P72?

2019-06-12, 17:46 PM

If your boost clock is 4.8ghz it should be abble to maintain 4.8ghz and remain below the throttling temp under load. no point advertising a boost clock of 4.8ghz if the machine canot maintain this level. 4.8ghz boost for 30 seconds is no good if it then throttles to a lower speed of 3.4ghz thats 1.4ghz slower than the advertised speed.

 

Speedstep is a tech that allows your CPU to run at a lower clock speed to save power, so at 2.9ghz your CPU is at idle and not using much processor power, ask your computer to encode a video or compress a large file and it should boost to the spec of the CPU and maintain that speed until the video is encoded or file compressed. if the CPU starts to heat up and get to the recommended Max delta TJC ( intel provide the specific specs for each CPU) say 97c then the CPU will slow down to try and maintain a temp below TJC. If your machine throttles down because its getting hot it can only mean inefficient cooling, either the cooling is of poor design, or the thermal paste has hardened and no longer provides a good thermal interface to the heatsink to transfer the heat away from the CPU. When the machine is under load encoding ect and the temp rises the cooling fan increases speed to cool the CPU and remove heat so the CPU can maintain its recommended boost clock speed.

 

The fan speed is controlled by the logic board or motherboard which ever you wish to call it, it reads the temp of the CPU see's that its getting hot so increases the fan speed to take the heat away from the heatsink that sits over the CPU and GFX card which with good contact and good condition thermal paste it should be able to do. and also maintain the Full speed of that CPU keeping it with in its Max TJC delta.

 

Some will say you can under volt your CPU using software to do so. this is true you can under volt your CPU to produce less heat, we are talking only a few C difference with 0.1mv to 0.12mv but with the risk that 30 mins into a video decode your machine might crash as the CPU is running on less than the recommended voltage. ( each intel CPU comes with its VID which is recommended voltage )so if you choose this method make sure its 100% stable before doing anything important, you could lose your current work or at worst corrup windows completely.

 

If your machine is under warranty and you suffer from over heating then an RMA back to lenovo to fix is recommended. if you are tech minded and wish to replace the poor thermal paste with a better one you will see substantial results doing so. but of course this is at your own risk. personally i have replaced mine with thermal grizzly which has transformed my machine with over a 20c drop in load temps.

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19 Posts

02-05-2019

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  • Message 11 of 23

Re: Has anyone tried to re-paste the P72?

2019-06-13, 22:49 PM

Thanks for the comprehensive reply VaporMatt.

 

Thremal paste shouldnt be dry on a machine thats a month old. Did you do the repaste on a P72?

Can anyone confirm P72 specs? Would Lenovo RMA a laptop that cannot maintain full Boost clock for extended loads? Should it be able to run full CPU & full GPU (Nvidia Quadro P5200) loads and manage to disapate all of the heat? I mean of course ideally it should have been designed with sufficient cooling, but physics might not allow that in such a small package...
Basically I'm trying to figure out 1. Is my machine working as expected? 2. any way to squeeze some more out of it?

Thanks :)

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8 Posts

05-24-2019

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Re: Has anyone tried to re-paste the P72?

2019-06-15, 6:54 AM

Thermal paste can dry out quickly when a machine is running hot, also your machine might be a month old, but this does not mean the thermal paste used is also a month old. the problem with the thermal paste used by lenovo and others is its not fluid enough. Its a thick paste that drys out, which is fine on something that has no flex. in the laptop the heat pipes from GFX card and CPU hot plates connect to the heatsink and this obviously flexes when picking up the laptop ect.

 

 

You only need about 1mm of flex as the heat plate is mounted via spring loaded screws allowing this flex to occour. the problem is once the heat plate has broken contact with the cpu even by 0.1mm the efficency of the thermal paste is now poor as contact has broken and you are relying on the heatsink sitting back down on the thermal paste, as its not fluid it will not maintain good thermal contact.

 

this problem is not only a problem for lenovo, alot of laptops have poor thermal paste, the same as GFX cards in PC base stations do too. my own 2080ti when fitting a water block on had poor thermal paste application, thats why on GFX card forums you get the same thing my GFX card is over heating ect ect.

 

The 2 good thermal pastes that offer fluid thermal contact are thermal grizzly, and arctic ceramic thermal paste. thermal grizzly offers the best efficiency.

 

 

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19 Posts

02-05-2019

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Re: Has anyone tried to re-paste the P72?

2019-06-15, 13:32 PM

Interesting points which I hadnt thought of.

 

Any experience with thos new Graphite Thermal Pads?

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05-24-2019

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Re: Has anyone tried to re-paste the P72?

2019-06-15, 14:41 PM

Yes i have experince with the new graphite thermal pads, fitted to R7 radeon GPU's and a new line of them coming from thermal grizzly.

They do have a good thermal transfer, but they also have no flex and stick in places, so can easily break free when flexed. if you look at radeon VII heatsink removal pic's via google you can see how easy they tear.

 

Cant say i have ever tried one on a laptop but i still feel fluid thermal interface allowing for flex would be best, the graphite sheets are made for easy application of course, but i dont think thermal paste is real hard.

 

When ever i re paste a laptop be it lenovo or Macbook pro or any other, i use thermal grizzly as i know it works and lasts. I might try a thermal graphite sheet on one of my older laptops to compare one day.

 

Its a shame lenovo and others dont use a higher grade thermal paste, it would stop a lot of returns for over heating and if its cost related i can only say you would not use more than $2 worth on each laptop. i would pay the extra $2 to have no heat issues and i expect alot of others would to.

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Re: Has anyone tried to re-paste the P72?

2019-06-16, 5:37 AM

I think we already pay more than enough for our thinkpads! My P72 came out to $8600 (luckily that was the full sticker price prior to sale).

 

Thanks for all the info Vapormatt.

 

 

Can anyone who owns a fully maxed out P72 share speeds/temps/throttling for direct comparison?

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35 Posts

03-01-2019

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Re: Has anyone tried to re-paste the P72?

2019-06-16, 11:05 AM

On my P72 the fans do go a lot.  I'm running two 4k monitors via Thunderbolt + a splitter.  I have found out that undervolting the CPU by 0.120 V makes all the difference when it comes to thermal throttling.  Under load it tends to stay 500MHz higher than unchainged voltage.  100% stability too.  Taking the thing apart for re-pasting is a step too far for me.

I don't do games, just like a lot of stuff to be available (open) at any given moment.


P72 Xeon 96GB | 2019 MBP 13 i7 16GB
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Re: Has anyone tried to re-paste the P72?

2019-06-16, 14:22 PM

Thanks Hartmannsson :)

 

I'll give that undervolt a testrun and see how my machine behaves. Which CPU is your P72?

 

BTW... Firewire? Over Thunderbolt 3?

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35 Posts

03-01-2019

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Re: Has anyone tried to re-paste the P72?

2019-06-16, 14:28 PM

It's the 2176 and the Quadro 4200.

*edited above*

Thunderbolt not FW!


P72 Xeon 96GB | 2019 MBP 13 i7 16GB
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Re: Has anyone tried to re-paste the P72?

2019-06-16, 19:09 PM

Hmm so I guess I cant just count on your undervolt numbers working 2186 :-\

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35 Posts

03-01-2019

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Re: Has anyone tried to re-paste the P72?

2019-06-16, 19:45 PM

You couldn't even if I had the same CPU as you.  Ever heard of the Silicon Lottery?

 

Undervolting is absolutely safe (confirm with google), what you do is find how far you can go without the system crashing. 
On a new machine I typically trial in 0.050 V increments, e.g. 

In Intel Extreme Tuning Utility, adjust Core Voltage Offset

-0.050 V Stable

-0.100 V Stable

-0.150 V CRASH!

-0.125 V Stable - found the sweet spot


P72 Xeon 96GB | 2019 MBP 13 i7 16GB
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Re: Has anyone tried to re-paste the P72?

2019-06-16, 20:26 PM

I hadnt heard that term before.Interesting stuff. I knew that the various tiers of processors were due to binning, but I dont know there was that much variation per same model chip :)

 

You sound at the bare minimum MUCH more experienced at undervolting that I am... how long so find that the system needs to be stress tested for on each 0.050 V step?

 

Whats the worst that can happen if I drop the voltage too far?

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