cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
Reply
xhu12
HDMI
Posts: 245
Registered: ‎06-29-2011
Location: USA
Views: 721
Message 1 of 21

Horrible repair service!!!

I just got my 2 months old W520 back from depot repair(Memphis, Tennessee) and I could not believe my eyes when I read the repair report.

 

The problem I have with my W520 along with some other users can be read in the thread:

http://forum.lenovo.com/t5/W-Series-ThinkPad-Laptops/W520-shuts-off-intermittently-no-BSOD-or-shut-d...

 

Basically, my laptop randomly powers itself off during idle or under low load intermittently, no BOSD or any kind of wanting. Mostly the computer is very cool when it occurs(40-50C), so I would assume that overheating is not the reason. More than once, the L1 tech support on the phone suggested a mainboard exchange as solution, which sounds reasonable to me.

 

To make the best description for the technician, I printed put a letter on an extra sheet paper and attached it to the Lenovo's mandatory problem description sheet (stapled to it!) to make sure the tech can read it before working on the laptop:

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Problem description:


Random, unexpected shut-off, very intermittent (on average once 5-7 days).
During the shut-off, the screen/mouse first freezes for about 10 seconds and then
the laptop turns itself off completely without blue screen or any other error
messages. Afterwards, the computer can be powered back on without problem,
however, during the booting, windows will display a menu asking whether the user
would like to boot into the safe mode, indicating an abnormal shutdown.
Afterwards, one can find a critical error in the windows event log: event 41,
Kernel-power, indicating there has been an unexpected power loss.


These random shut-offs have been observed so far only when the laptop is in idle
or under low load, many times, I found the computer powered off after returning
from a bathroom break, for example. The system temperature is mostly around
45C while the random shut-offs were observed, so overheating is very unlikely to
be the reason. Under heavy load, i.e.. Modern 3D games, the computer always have
behaved well, other problems or overheating haven't been observed so far.
The laptop is about 2 months old (purchased in June 2011), have been having this
problem since the 2 week after receiving the product. For a long time, I thought it
was due to some settings or driver problem. I have updated all Lenovo drivers,
BIOS and all available Windows 7 updates, as well as reset the HDD to the factory
state using the Lenovo recovery DVD, but the problem still occurs.


The Lenovo tech-support has suggested the mainboard replacement as a possible
solution.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

What did they repair? They replaced the absolutely well functioning FAN! HOW could they possibly come up with this idea??? After reading the case file and the attached letter????

 

I could run modern video games on the w520 for hours or over night without overheating or any problem.

 

I was wordless when I saw the report, are you kidding me? There are only two possibilities for diagnosis of that the fan is not spinning,

 

1. It become broken after they received the laptop, or during the transport

2. LIE.

 

This is the support you get to purchase a 2000$ business class laptop from LENOVO??????? This kind of repair is borderline cheating and scam! They obviously take us customers as total idiots! I wasted sooo much time since the purchase of this computer, deal with tech support, waiting for UPS deliveries, trouble shoot myself the random shutoff, what a ultimate business tool!

 

BTW, the tech support on the phone checked for me today, the Mobo for W520, which is most likely part that needs to be replaced in my laptop, is currently on back order even in the depot service center in Memphis TN! I wonder how they did they run out of Mobos so fast on a machine that just has been introduced early this year!

 

UPDATE: 2 days after the repair, I had another random shutoff, laptop was on AC power, maximal performance setting in the energy usage profile, after it was left alone on the desk for about 15min, it died with a random power loss, same event log entry as usual. So much to the fan replacement...

 

UPDATE: So far 2 random shutoffs of the same fashion within 3 days after repair...

ThorsHammer
Bit Torrent
Posts: 2,423
Registered: ‎04-08-2011
Location: US
Views: 700
Message 2 of 21

Re: Horrible repair service!!!

Maybe the fan did fix it.  What if the previous fan was in fact defective?

 

I'm on your side.  I expect perfection.

 

I am going to pray the fan actually did resolve the issue.

xhu12
HDMI
Posts: 245
Registered: ‎06-29-2011
Location: USA
Views: 681
Message 3 of 21

Re: Horrible repair service!!!

Maybe the fan did fixed it? On what ground? As far as I know the W520 is not run by magics.

 

How was I able to play 3D video games from 2011 over night without any thermal shutdown if the fan was defect?? I hardly get hotter than 82C as max temperature during those sessions. What is not clear in the description, from me and the case file???? The shutdown occurs when system temperature is about 45C, what is unclear about it??

 

It is a cheap excuse, if the fan was broken, it broke after I sent it out, which I hardly doubted. That is the cheapest part which might cover the error category "random shutdown" they can do. I sent my laptop for some 1000 miles and quasi total dis/reassembly for nothing!

 

As I stated, it is borderline SCAM!

 

But Thor, I am totally agree with you, nothing would make me happier than if the random shutdown won't occur. I still have sometime before I can send it again because the W520 Mobo is out of stock in the repair center and if I send the laptop now it will sit there and wait. But this would give be enough time to see whether the random shutdown will occur again. And you tell me how much money you would bet on it that the problem won't occur again?

ThorsHammer
Bit Torrent
Posts: 2,423
Registered: ‎04-08-2011
Location: US
Views: 647
Message 4 of 21

Re: Horrible repair service!!!

I don't gamble (with money) and I wouldn't bet on this anyway.  Chances are there is something else wrong.  Considering the fan is regulated by temp and other silicon, and the CPU is tied into that, I can see how a faulty fan could throw everything into havoc.

 

So I guess it's technically possible it could have been the problem, but I'm skeptical.

 

My W520 does really infrequent reboots.  I haven't seen one in several weeks but that doesn't mean the machine self healed itself either.

xhu12
HDMI
Posts: 245
Registered: ‎06-29-2011
Location: USA
Views: 634
Message 5 of 21

Re: Horrible repair service!!!

 Sorry that was just a pure rhethorical question Smiley Happy I mean I just don't really know what to say to them. They just do whatever they feel like to. I wonder are the people work in their repair center are simply underqualified or they are ordered to do so to save costs?

 

The fan could not be the problem as long as I had the computer, I have desktop gadges that monitors the system temperatures all the time and the fan speed was never too low and the temperatures were never high. That's actually the feature I like W520 the most is that it always stays cool.

 

I can not imagine the fan is "not spinning" as they said on the problem description. This is absolutely not true, I mean I am not stupid, I am fully capable to determine whether my laptop overheats or not, trust me.

 

I said it and I will say it again, unless the fan got broken in that well padded box during the transport, other than that, it is just an attempt of scam, nothing more nothing less, and I am very furious about that Lenovo even would give this kind of things a try! It is simply unbelievable!

 

I really would like to talk to the tech worked on my computer in person, but the field on the report, where the tech and quality control person should sign, are empty.

 

Likvid
Token Ring
Posts: 80
Registered: ‎03-10-2009
Location: Sweden
Views: 624
Message 6 of 21

Re: Horrible repair service!!!


@xhu12 wrote:

 

 

The fan could not be the problem as long as I had the computer, I have desktop gadges that monitors the system temperatures all the time and the fan speed was never too low and the temperatures were never high. That's actually the feature I like W520 the most is that it always stays cool

 

 



You can't measure the GPU memory temp as there are no sensors in the unit for it, even if the GPU says normal temps the memory chips might be running hot.

 

Either way you could buy a temp measure instrument cheaply somewhere which is like a pen you point ontop of the chips and you can see the real temp on them and draw a conclusion.

xhu12
HDMI
Posts: 245
Registered: ‎06-29-2011
Location: USA
Views: 605
Message 7 of 21

Re: Horrible repair service!!!


@Likvid wrote:

@xhu12 wrote:

 

 

The fan could not be the problem as long as I had the computer, I have desktop gadges that monitors the system temperatures all the time and the fan speed was never too low and the temperatures were never high. That's actually the feature I like W520 the most is that it always stays cool

 

 



You can't measure the GPU memory temp as there are no sensors in the unit for it, even if the GPU says normal temps the memory chips might be running hot.

 

Either way you could buy a temp measure instrument cheaply somewhere which is like a pen you point ontop of the chips and you can see the real temp on them and draw a conclusion.


We have this all over again, please tell me, why should the GPU memory overheat if the computer sits there in IDLE? there is no any reading/writing operations happening so why would those chips get hot? The GPU memories are memories of the GPUs right? If the GPU is not even activated, there won't be no any usage of its memory chips, if it still gets hot, there is a manifacture mistake and that Nividia graphics card needs to be replaced. Not that **bleep** fan, because it spinns around 2000-3500 RPM in idle/normal use and about 5000 if the system is under very heavy load.

 

Also what would you suggest if I have another same shutoff? Another FAN replacement?

xhu12
HDMI
Posts: 245
Registered: ‎06-29-2011
Location: USA
Views: 601
Message 8 of 21

Re: Horrible repair service!!!

Also I don't really understand your logic. They replaced the fan because they claimed that the "fan is not spinning". If that's the case, then everything in the system should overheat, I would say if the problem was thermal shutdown, the quad core CPU or the GPU itself will be burned before the GPU memory chips. So why I nevner saw these component overheating if the fan was indeed broken? There would be only one szenario that CPU/GPU stay cool while the GPU memory is burning hot even the GPU is not in use, that is when the graphics card unit is defect, I should have all kinds of problems with my  GPUs/external monitors/3D apps, but I didn't. So I think your GPU memory theory is very unlikely that reason for the problems I had. 

Guru
Posts: 1,802
Registered: ‎04-20-2008
Location: US
Views: 594
Message 9 of 21

Re: Horrible repair service!!!

There were many instances of fans sometimes not starting on older Thinkpads after resuming from "sleep" condition. Also, the heat pipes cover bother the CPU and the GPU and the thermal paste might have been applied too thinly on the GPU or the contact might not have been sufficient for the heat transfer. My thinking, after reading these threads, is that there is an issue with the fan control and waking up from sleep (the fan would be off then). All of your posts indicate that the problem happens while at idle. What setting are you using for the sleep condition timer? Perhaps you should try to disable the timer (set it to NEVER) and see whether the system crashes again. IT would be a good starting point.


P70 XEON 1505, BIOS 2.30, UHD 4k Display, 64GB non-ECC RAM, M3000M NVIDIA GPU, RAID 1 512GB Samsung 951 PCIe-NVMe SSD x 2, 2x Samsung 850 Pro 1TB SSD. EM7455 WWAN
P1. BIOS 1.22,Xeon Processor, 32GB, PM981 1TB x 2, RAID 1
T470s, 16GB RAM, BIOS 1.10, i7-7500, WQHD display, 512GB PM961 PCIe NVMe SSD
xhu12
HDMI
Posts: 245
Registered: ‎06-29-2011
Location: USA
Views: 590
Message 10 of 21

Re: Horrible repair service!!!

I don't have any timer set for my fan, it should be ultimately controlled by the BIOS. Besides, the fan will spin with low RPM if the system is not hot or in idle to reduce noise and save battery, that is a feature in ALL laptops now days. I simply used the default settings, and I don't think even you can directly control the fan speeds unless you install some extra tools such as tpfans or something similar.

 

Besides, the ultimate symptoms of a non-working fan is that you will quickly see system gets hot especially with the quadcore CPUs running with turboboost, so why didn't I see any overheating component in my system?

 

Besides, why am I suppose to test this and try that? and why are there so many W520 out there working fine with default settings and without try this and set that? It is not my responsiblity spend a significant amount of time to trouble shoot the laptop, I am not getting paid for that, but rather doing work on that the laptop. If I didn't get one of those fine working W520, it is lenovo's responsibility to fix it or replace it with a working one, and at moment they haven't done nothing.

Check out current deals!


Shop current deals

Top Kudoed Authors