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KayMW
Paper Tape
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎09-25-2016
Location: US
Views: 1,491
Message 1 of 15

Is "ThinkPad P50 M.2 SATA SSD Tray" support M.2 NVMe SSD ?

I've bought a ThinkPad P50 with 500GB HDD.

 

Now I want to install another M.2 SSD.

 

And then I buy a M.2 tray.

(http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/itemdetails/4XB0L78233/460/41E9A3C3FB5A45A9AC47C56812E4188C)

 

But it says it's a "M.2 SATA SSD Tray".

 

So does it support NVMe SSDs witch size is 2280 ?

 

(Sorry for that my grammar is pretty bad.)

 

What's up?
Community SeniorMod
Community SeniorMod
Posts: 9,333
Registered: ‎01-01-2010
Location: US
Views: 1,467
Message 2 of 15

Re: Is "ThinkPad P50 M.2 SATA SSD Tray" support M.2 NVMe SSD ?

regardless of the grammar. the answer is "yes"


Rich


I do not respond to requests for private, one-on-one help. Your questions should be posted in the appropriate forum where they may help others as well.

If a response answers your question, please mark it as the accepted solution.

I am not an employee or agent of Lenovo.
KayMW
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Registered: ‎09-25-2016
Location: US
Views: 1,462
Message 3 of 15

Re: Is "ThinkPad P50 M.2 SATA SSD Tray" support M.2 NVMe SSD ?

Thanks!
What's up?
mithr
Punch Card
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Registered: ‎07-21-2018
Location: SK
Views: 486
Message 4 of 15

Re: Is "ThinkPad P50 M.2 SATA SSD Tray" support M.2 NVMe SSD ?

Hello Richk

 

how sure are you that the 4XB0L78233 m.2 tray is compatible with M.2 SSD disks?

In US site there is not such P/N anymore but in CA site there is 4XB0K59917 for SSD and 4XB0L78233 for SATA

 

Thanks

SeniorGuru
Posts: 2,264
Registered: ‎06-13-2013
Location: US
Views: 484
Message 5 of 15

Re: Is "ThinkPad P50 M.2 SATA SSD Tray" support M.2 NVMe SSD ?

The two different M.2 tray part numbers are correct, with 4XB0L78233 appropriate for an M.2 SATA SSD and 4XB0K59917 appropriate for an M.2 NVMe SSD.  They are two different parts, for two the two different types of M.2 SSD drives you can install, SATA or NVMe.

 

Whichever specific type of M.2 SSD you buy (with NVMe being much faster than SATA), that's the specific type of tray part you need.  They are NOT interchangeable.

mithr
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Registered: ‎07-21-2018
Location: SK
Views: 462
Message 6 of 15

Re: Is "ThinkPad P50 M.2 SATA SSD Tray" support M.2 NVMe SSD ?

thank you very much for your fast reply 

so for samsung m.2 NVMEs do i need the 4XB0K59917 exclusively?

i am also confused because here it says that actually the 4XB0K59917 can support both types SATA/NVME

is there any shortage of 4XB0K59917 in us as i am checking long time for this product?

SeniorGuru
Posts: 2,264
Registered: ‎06-13-2013
Location: US
Views: 459
Message 7 of 15

Re: Is "ThinkPad P50 M.2 SATA SSD Tray" support M.2 NVMe SSD ?

Well, leave it to Lenovo to provide ambiguous and confusing documentation and parts lists, and not eventually clean things up to eliminate inconsistencies.

 

This is the current "system service parts" page for the P50. It shows the exploded schematic of the P50 parts, but there are no part numbers shown (neither FRU nor CRU).

 

However the page does provide a link to a PDF document which provides a complete list of all of the FRU part numbers for the P50.  Theoretically these are part numbers for field-replacement by Lenovo technicians, some of which may also be be customer-replaceable and have corresponding CRU numbers (for retail purchase by users).

 

In particular, in that PDF document there is an item described in the "Mechanicals" category as "Tray ASM,SSD,w/screw" which has the FRU number of 00UR798. And if you do a Google search on that item you get a hit on the Lenovo accessories site for the item which is described as "ThinkPad P50 M.2 SATA SSD Tray".  The details show this as "Marketing part number 4XB0L78233" and "Service part number (FRU) 00UR798".

 

There is clear implication in the accessories page that this part is specifically for a SATA M.2 SSD although the PDF parts list doesn't actually say anything specific about that, i.e. usable for SATA vs. NVMe.  And there is no second tray listed designated specifically for NVMe.  So the PDF parts list seems inconsistent, incomplete, and confusing.  There is no mention of a second FRU or CRU, i.e. the other tray with part number 4XB0K59917 which has been referenced specifically for NVMe, but which Amy_Lenovo's article says can actually be used for both SATA and NVMe!  That's actually a very good improvement, if true, as now only one tray part would be needed no matter if you wanted to install either SATA or NVMe M.2 SSD.  Great!

 

However as you've observed, the "miracle tray" 4XB0K59917 described only as "ThinkPad  M.2 SSD Tray" (a) is NOT available for purchase on the Lenovo US site but only available on the Lenovo Canadian site, (b) IS available retail from other 3rd-party vendors like B&H Photo, and (c) does NOT specify in the product specs or description that it actually can be used for both SATA and NVMe M.2 SSDs.  Perhaps that absence of distinction is meant to imply that it really can be used for ANY KIND of M.2 SSD, but it would be reassuring to the customer if the description would actually say that.

 

In other words, if 4XB0K59917 is actually the NVMe/SATA successor to SATA-specific 4XB0L78233, it would really be comforting to the user to have those words plainly stated in the product description.  Also, you'd think the P50 parts list PDF would show that by now.  Also, you'd think the new NVMe/SATA "miracle tray" product would actually be available for purchase from the Lenovo US accessories site, instead of the old SATA-only tray.  Grumble, grumble... I agree.

 

So, my sympathies with the extra issues for the P50.  Thankfully I have a P70 which requires no tray whatsoever, so I was able to simply install two NVMe Samsung 950 pro M.2 SSD's with no concern whatsoever, as the electrical connector itself inside the M.2 bay of the P70 was built to allow use of either NVMe or SATA M.2 SSD.

 

If you're planning on going with two Samsung NVMe drives, I'd say that for absolute sure you need the NVMe/SATA 4XB0K59917 and not the older SATA-only 4XB0L78233.  It's unfortunate you can't buy the required part from Lenovo US, but at least you can get it elsewhere (either retail 3rd-party or Lenovo Canada).

freddellmeister
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Registered: ‎12-24-2011
Location: AE
Views: 444
Message 8 of 15

Re: Is "ThinkPad P50 M.2 SATA SSD Tray" support M.2 NVMe SSD ?

Hi DSperber, if you look at this video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fcdm42JdZxI there is nothing to suggest that the bracket is anything more than a guide to allow the M.2 device to sit steady in the 2.5" bay. The connector of the card is in no way influenced by it. Hence if the P50 can support NVMe it has nothing o do with the bracket.
SeniorGuru
Posts: 2,264
Registered: ‎06-13-2013
Location: US
Views: 434
Message 9 of 15

Re: Is "ThinkPad P50 M.2 SATA SSD Tray" support M.2 NVMe SSD ?

Unfortunately, the YouTube video you point to which is theoretically showing how to install an M.2 SSD is very misleading and actually inaccurate.

 

(1) The URL link to the actual tray part that is shown under the video on the YouTube page is no longer valid.  It is intended to point to the Lenovo page allowing you to buy part 4XB0L78233 which is original SATA-only tray which is actually available for purchase at Lenovo USA, but this specific link no longer works.  The actual link to buy that SATA-only tray is here.  But again, I'm sure it is for a SATA-only type of M.2 drive.

 

(2) The poster of the YouTube video claims in his monologue that the tray will work for either NVMe or SATA versions of the M.2 SSD.  This is essentially saying that there is presumably no difference in the electrical connector of the drive-to-the-tray between NVMe or SATA, and that is untrue.  In fact a SATA M.2 drive connector (like the Samsung 850 EVO M.2 SSD he shows being installed in the video) is a SATA version of an M.2 card, and has TWO U-SHAPED CUTOUTS in the electrical connector.  These cutouts represent two or three "pins" which are not electrically present in the overall connection design.

 

In contrast, an NVMe M.2 drive connector (like the Samsung 950 Pro M.2 SSD) only has ONE U-SHAPED CUTOUT in the electrical connector.  Two or three additional "pins" have been added to the electrical connection design in order to support the significantly increased data speed of NVMe.

 

Although I don't have one in front of me to physically examine, I would guess that the original SATA-only tray part 4XB0L78233 has its drive-to-the-tray connector with a matching pair of TWO U-SHAPED CUTOUTS, to match the electrical connector requirement of a SATA-only M.2 SSD such as the Samsung 850 EVO.

 

(3) Since we are also certain that the newer M.2 tray part 4XB0K59917 has been documented by Amy_Lenovo in that FAQ as supporting BOTH SATA AS WELL AS NVMe M.2 drives, we have to believe that this newer tray has been designed so that its electrical drive-to-the-tray connector MUST HAVE ALL OF THE "PINS" needed by the NVMe form of M.2 drive should you be installing an NVMe M.2 drive in it, else it wouldn't work for an NVMe M.2 drive. These are DUAL-MODE CONNECTORS in the new tray itself, for both SATA and NVMe M.2 drives.

 

Also, since the actual tray-in-the-bay connector of the laptop (both for P5x and P7x laptops) can support either SATA or NVMe M.2 drive (either with a tray for P5x or without a tray for P7x), that these tray-in-the-bay connectors also must be DUAL-MODE in order to support both SATA and NVMe M.2 drives.

 

Unfortunately, this newer M.2 DUAL-MODE (i.e. allowing both SATA and NVMe M.2 drives to be used) tray part 4XB0K59917 is for some reason simply not shown as available from the Lenovo US Accessories site, although it is still available from other sources (including Lenovo Canada).  This "Lenovo parts" search for the newer SATA/NVMe tray 4XB0K59917 yields NO RESULTS FOUND. In contrast this "Lenovo parts" search for the older SATA-only 4XB0L78233 is successful... but it's for the SATA-only tray part.

 

(3) The tray is required for the P5x because the double M.2 drive bay area can be converted for use to hold a second single 2.5" drive if you want to do that instead. And a 2.5" 7mm drive is physically larger than two M.2 2280 cards, so Lenovo designed the entire double-bay physical space to support the larger drive.  Hence the need for the M.2 support adapter trays (to install the tray securely into the M.2 bay and then allow the smaller M.2 cards to be securely installed in the tray and tightened down with the tightening screw to the tray itself).

 

So we know the electrical connectors in the M.2 bay of the laptop support both SATA and NVMe (i.e. with the one or two U-shaped cutouts in the connector). And we suspect the newer 4XB0K59917 has an identical SATA/NVMe dual-purpose connector which will support either one or two U-shaped cutouts in the drive's connector, per the FAQ by Amy_Lenovo.  We must suspect the older 4XB0L78233 SATA-only tray can only be used for the two U-shaped cutout connector in a SATA M.2 drive.

 

In other words, the actual dual-mode tray-to-the-bay connector inside the M.2 bay of the P5x laptops CAN support either SATA or NVME.  And apparently you can use either SATA or NVMe M.2 drive if you use the newer dual-mode 4XB0K59917 tray part (which crazily you can't buy from Lenovo USA anymore).  But if you use the older SATA-only 4XB0L78233 tray part you can only use a SATA M.2 drive.

freddellmeister
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Registered: ‎12-24-2011
Location: AE
Views: 421
Message 10 of 15

Re: Is "ThinkPad P50 M.2 SATA SSD Tray" support M.2 NVMe SSD ?

There is no connector on the tray itself, the connector is on the motherboard of the laptop. The tray is just that, a tray. The only "tray" with a connector is the 2.5" drive caddy and u can see the SATA connector exposed on the top side of the motherboard in the video. Although I agree with you write in general, I have not found anything to suggest that physically there is something in the tray that would prevent either SATA or NVMe.

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