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nvsnow
SCSI Port
Posts: 77
Registered: ‎11-09-2019
Location: US
Views: 521
Message 91 of 173

Re: P53 Performance Issues - Thermal/Power Throttling?


@agazpp wrote:

This functionality is implemented in and enforced through Lenovo APS (Active Protection System) driver;

 

 


This is interesting. Using HWiNFO, the APS Sensor is tied to the Nvidia GPU temps.

 

aps and gpu.jpg

Branagh
Fanfold Paper
Posts: 10
Registered: ‎12-05-2019
Location: DE
Views: 517
Message 92 of 173

Re: P53 Performance Issues - Thermal/Power Throttling?

@ThinkpadIL: Definitely agree, I have been building and installing PCs for a long time now and I didn't have a clue that there is a hidden slider that would render my PC useless in case I need performance. How would your average Joe know about and find it? To be fair, though, this is partially also a result of Microsoft switching UIs, I was trying to use the old energy options where you don't find that slider. Things will hopefully straighten out soon on that front.

 

@nvsnow: Yeah, my benchmark results were even worse under throttling, down to 15-20% fps. One thing I wonder about RTX3000 clock ratings though: There seem to be wildly different cards out there. Mine officially clocks at 945 / 1380 (boost) and 7000 for the memory. On top of that, when I look at the clock in Nvidia Inspector, it often says it's running around 1600-1800 for the GPU clock, which is way above its boost level. Comparing benchmarks with notebookcheck.com's numbers also suggests I'm seeing better perfomance than I "should". Positive anomaly, for once, but very strange.

 

 

ThinkpadIL
Token Ring
Posts: 129
Registered: ‎11-12-2019
Location: IL
Views: 496
Message 93 of 173

Re: P53 Performance Issues - Thermal/Power Throttling?

@Branagh: the difference in RTX3000 performance compared to notebookcheck could be explained by updated BIOS or updated driver, or different power management settings

ve2mrx
802.11n
Posts: 270
Registered: ‎07-07-2019
Location: CA
Views: 479
Message 94 of 173

Re: P53 Performance Issues - Thermal/Power Throttling?

@nvsnow This temperature sensor is a power supply. It has no connection with the movement sensor named Active Protection System.

The Active Protection System is also used to protect hard drives when there is a bump or fall. It will quickly park the heads on mechanical drives. Some hard drive models have such a sensor, but most don't. Since the ThinkPad series is a workhorse, it appears Lenovo chose to build its own motion sensing and make it standard.

The lap sensing "feature" was easy to add at that point. Only the detection logic has to by adapted. I agree it should be OFF by default as most will never use it on their laps, and the few that do will only complain of hot lap. Besides, it's written in the instructions NOT to block cooling grills...

Now, Lenovo, don't try to be like Microsoft! Don't mess with what is already working nicely! Leave it off!

Martin
I'm a user, NOT a Lenovo employee. If my post helped, consider giving me a Kudos. If I solved your issue, please mark it as Solved.
P52 I7-8750H P1000 FHD 16GB 512GB-SSD 1TB-HDD
ThinkpadIL
Token Ring
Posts: 129
Registered: ‎11-12-2019
Location: IL
Views: 441
Message 95 of 173

Re: P53 Performance Issues - Thermal/Power Throttling?

My theory about this APS mess is that Lenovo has to abide by regulations (don't know if these are consumer regulations or something that's needed in order to fulfill a contract). These regulations specify the maximum allowed surface temperature of the laptop. So the choice Lenovo has is either throttle the performance when some sensor is reporting too high a temperature, or invent some other way to prevent skin contact with hot surface - this is where APS comes in. Of course, their first, second, third and tenth take at implementing this all have bugs but hopefully eventually they will make it work.

agazpp
Token Ring
Posts: 104
Registered: ‎09-08-2019
Location: US
Views: 428
Message 96 of 173

Re: P53 Performance Issues - Thermal/Power Throttling?

This is indeed correct - there are regulations which regulate various temperature specifications for various devices;

I can't find one, however, that specifically stipulates temperature for a laptop while on the lap;

Without such stipulation this theory won't stand, as what is allowed for stationary (non lap) should also be allowed for on the (lap);

Although, it is possible there is a regulations, regulating lap temps in particular; Especially in Europe;

Another observation: Lenovo APS is a combination of various sensors - temps, motion, gyro; Those aren't visible in hwinfo or similar afaik; There is an open source project concerning this system (will let read out, show orientation, e.t.c.);

According to person working on this project, laptop may limp out, not only due to temps or motion, but also due to orientation. [ though he was talking about lenovo APS implementation in laptops in general, not specific to P73/53 ]

Don't have a link handy, but this is easily googlable

P73 6c Xeon, RTX 5000, 2TB NVMe Samsung x 2, 7.6TB 2.5 SATA Micron SSD, 64gb ECC ram
Prior: Razer Blade Pro, Variety of Mac Books (2001 - 2015)
lenovotv
Token Ring
Posts: 599
Registered: ‎05-24-2018
Location: CA
Views: 407
Message 97 of 173

Re: P53 Performance Issues - Thermal/Power Throttling?

Hi, I am considering to reorder a P53 (i9 with RTX4000 or Xeon with RTX5000, 64GB). Have not decided which 4K screen option as I encountered issues in both OLED (ugly grids on screen, non-solid ugly looking letters due to the grids, poor battery life) and standard 4K screen (bad backlight bleeding, large gap between the LCD and the keyboard area), wrobble at the bottom, etc.

.

 

So, have these perforamnce/throttling issues been solved? I like the P53 because is does not have noisy nor high pitch fan noise as other Lenovo laptops I have used. However, if there are serious performance issues, I am considering to just get a Yoga C940 15" and remote login to a workstation at home.

 

Any suggestion?

Guru
Posts: 2,148
Registered: ‎04-20-2008
Location: US
Views: 388
Message 98 of 173

Re: P53 Performance Issues - Thermal/Power Throttling?

I'm not sure that any solution will satisfy your critical criteria of perfection. The OLED screen is not ugly, it just could have been better. The power consumption could be less, same or more depending on content being viewed. I'm getting about 4.5 to 5 hours on battery with my work using the Intel internal GPU. Good luck with your choice.


P53 XEON 2276 BIOS 1.19 OLED UHD 4K Multi-touch display, 96GB RAM, RTX5000, RAID 1, 1TB x 2 Samsung PM981, 1TB PM981, WWAN
P70 XEON 1505, BIOS 2.32, 4k Display, 64GB, M3000M NVIDIA GPU, RAID1 1TB Samsung PM981 PCIe-NVMe SSD x 2, 2x Samsung 850 Pro 1TB SSD. EM7455 WWAN
P1. BIOS 1.25,Xeon Processor, 4k UHD IPS multi-touch display, 32GB, PM981 1TB x 2, RAID1

I am not an employee nor an agent of Lenovo.
lenovotv
Token Ring
Posts: 599
Registered: ‎05-24-2018
Location: CA
Views: 384
Message 99 of 173

Re: P53 Performance Issues - Thermal/Power Throttling?

I think one user mentioned that he did not see the grids. Sales told me that this has been fixed. Not sure if this is really true. I cannot understand why there is a grid in this model. Other Thinkpad and Yoga I used have touch screen but there is no ugly grid.

Guru
Posts: 2,148
Registered: ‎04-20-2008
Location: US
Views: 370
Message 100 of 173

Re: P53 Performance Issues - Thermal/Power Throttling?

I have trouble seeing the dots under normal circumstances, but they are still there. If it is true that the displays have been fixed, then I'll return my unit for replacement. Net, I don't believe that the issue had been eliminated.


P53 XEON 2276 BIOS 1.19 OLED UHD 4K Multi-touch display, 96GB RAM, RTX5000, RAID 1, 1TB x 2 Samsung PM981, 1TB PM981, WWAN
P70 XEON 1505, BIOS 2.32, 4k Display, 64GB, M3000M NVIDIA GPU, RAID1 1TB Samsung PM981 PCIe-NVMe SSD x 2, 2x Samsung 850 Pro 1TB SSD. EM7455 WWAN
P1. BIOS 1.25,Xeon Processor, 4k UHD IPS multi-touch display, 32GB, PM981 1TB x 2, RAID1

I am not an employee nor an agent of Lenovo.

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