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ve2mrx
802.11n
Posts: 262
Registered: ‎07-07-2019
Location: CA
Views: 700
Message 121 of 173

Re: P53 Performance Issues - Thermal/Power Throttling?

Hi Gudi,

Last question first: The Lenovo Vantage version linked in the post is current. You can also find it in the the More, Imaging and Security Resources section of your machine's Support page.

As for throttling, the only one that you can influence is Thermal Throttling, with fans and under-volting. It is tied to the heat generated by the CPU and the capacity of the cooling system to remove it from the CPU. Since the cooling systems for the CPU and dGPU are interconnected, it's possible for the dGPU to influence the CPU's thermal throttling. Obviously, the Intel GPU does influence as it's built in the CPU!

Power Throttling might be influenced by under-volting too, as my understanding is that it's a limit from the CPU's power supply. It's likely the same as the dGPU, so both might be tied to this throttling. Unlike Thermal Throttling where strong fans can help dissipate heat, this throttling is a physical limit from the hardware design.

As for under-volting, YMMV depending on your specific CPU chip, but many report better throttling results on the P52 with -0.100V. It helps on mine, i7-8750H with P1000. But remember that under-volting takes you in experimental territory, it's up to you to ensure your system is reliable. If you have problems with it, it's not Lenovo or Intel's fault!

Now that this has been said, those who are thinking about building a custom machine, remember that cooling is a limited resource in a laptop. You should consider a desk machine that won't have those cooling limits too! Laptops are a compromise for portability, even if they manage to be pretty good at it.

As an example, consider the power differences between a laptop GPU and a desk GPU as read in another thread.

Good success!
Martin
I'm a user, NOT a Lenovo employee. If my post helped, consider giving me a Kudos. If I solved your issue, please mark it as Solved.
P52 I7-8750H P1000 FHD 16GB 512GB-SSD 1TB-HDD
nvsnow
SCSI Port
Posts: 77
Registered: ‎11-09-2019
Location: US
Views: 417
Message 122 of 173

P53 GPU Throttling Mystery is SOLVED - FINALLY!

Hello! I'm very excited to report that I'm no longer getting the strange throttling behavior and the solution has been recommended before - but there might a little more to it. So far, I've tried this on two different P53 with consistent and positve results.

 

The answer is: Reinstall Win10 - but not just any reinstall. Restoring the factory image OR downloading Lenovo's Media Recovery did not work for me. Instead,  downloading and installing Windows 10 from the Microsoft Site did the trick. Along the way, I did notice a subtle difference with this method (the experience was the same otherwise).

 

In general, Windows installation gives the computer a random name. For media sourced from Lenovo, the device name always defaulted to LAPTOP-______ (random 6 chars). When sourced directly from MS, I noticed the device name was DESKTOP-______. However, I'm unsure if something got fixed and this was purely coincidental.

 

device name.jpg

This DESKTOP designation was significant this time around and if anyone can explain how this is determined and its impact, please respond - that includes YOU, LENOVO! 

 

Another interesting observation is that the dreaded Lenovo Active Protection System (APS) system no longer appeared. Many have accurately concluded that this had direct impact to dGPU throttling. BTW, this throttling was so bad that the integrated Intel GPU was 30% faster than the throttled RTX 3000 in one encoding test.

 

No APS.jpg

 

Finally, what about Lenovo Vantage? I tried going through the default steps anyone would go through during reinstall. I let Windows download the standard security fixes and updated drivers. I also went to the MS Store and installed Vantage from there. Everything continued to work as expected and I continued to update using Vantage.

 

Vantage Initial.jpg

 

This solution isn't based on a house of cards either. I've updated the video drivers and ran multiple benchmarks and I couldn't replicate the problem. The only gripe is that the fan curve for middle performance is very 'silent' orientated and will throttle ... but it does recover - maybe not right away, but that is important. There was no throttling while in Best Performance mode.

 

Current settings:

1. BIOS Hybrid Video

2. Performance Mode (toggle medium to high depending on usage)

3. Latest Nvidia drivers

 

4. Power Settings - mostly default.

5. Hardware drivers and firmware - current as of 12/10/2019

 

I hope this helps!

nvsnow
SCSI Port
Posts: 77
Registered: ‎11-09-2019
Location: US
Views: 649
Message 123 of 173

GPU Throttling Mystery SOLVED!

Hello! I'm very excited to report that I'm no longer getting the strange throttling behavior and the solution has been recommended before - but there might a little more to it. So far, I've tried this on two different P53 with consistent and positve results.

 

The answer is: Reinstall Win10 - but not just any reinstall. Restoring the factory image OR downloading Lenovo's Media Recovery did not work for me. Instead,  downloading and installing Windows 10 from the Microsoft Site did the trick. Along the way, I did notice a subtle difference with this method (the experience was the same otherwise).

 

In general, Windows installation gives the computer a random name. For media sourced from Lenovo, the device name always defaulted to LAPTOP-______ (random 6 chars). When sourced directly from MS, I noticed the device name was DESKTOP-______. However, I'm unsure if something got fixed and this was purely coincidental.

 

device name.jpg

This DESKTOP designation was significant this time around and if anyone can explain how this is determined and its impact, please respond - that includes YOU, LENOVO! 

 

Another interesting observation is that the dreaded Lenovo Active Protection System (APS) system no longer appeared. Many have accurately concluded that this had direct impact to dGPU throttling. BTW, this throttling was so bad that the integrated Intel GPU was 30% faster than the throttled RTX 3000 in one encoding test.

 

No APS.jpg

 

Finally, what about Lenovo Vantage? I tried going through the default steps anyone would go through during reinstall. I let Windows download the standard security fixes and updated drivers. I also went to the MS Store and installed Vantage from there. Everything continued to work as expected and I continued to update using Vantage.

 

Vantage Initial.jpg

 

This solution isn't based on a house of cards either. I've updated the video drivers and ran multiple benchmarks and I couldn't replicate the problem. The only gripe is that the fan curve for middle performance is very 'silent' orientated and will throttle ... but it does recover - maybe not right away, but that is important. There was no throttling while in Best Performance mode.

 

Current settings:

1. BIOS Hybrid Video

2. Performance Mode (toggle medium to high depending on usage)

3. Latest Nvidia drivers (older DCH are fine)

4. Power Settings - mostly default.

5. Hardware drivers and firmware - current as of 12/10/2019

 

I hope this helps!

La_Marmotte
Punch Card
Posts: 26
Registered: ‎11-25-2019
Location: FR
Views: 629
Message 124 of 173

Re: GPU Throttling Mystery SOLVED!

@nvsnow Hi! These are good news at last! You're giving hope to everyone here and we couldn't thank you enough. I'd like you to tell us a bit more about your settings and your method please, I'd like to replicate all what you've done and see if I can observe the same results.

a) Did you download your graphics driver directly from Nvidia's website?

b) How does your P53 behave when on Discrete Mode in BIOS?

c) Which lenovo softwares/drivers do you NOT recommend to download or install?

d) Could you check cpu and GPU temps while you run your benchmarks?

e) Do you have the "Airplane mode" setting available on your version of Vantage?

 

Thanks again!

ThinkpadIL
Token Ring
Posts: 129
Registered: ‎11-12-2019
Location: IL
Views: 622
Message 125 of 173

Re: P53 Performance Issues - Thermal/Power Throttling?

Hey nvsnow,

 

This is interesting. So I just googled this and it appears that there is a certain variable that the OS uses to save information about the chassis of the machine. That variable is stored in WMI (windows management instrumentation) database, under the name Win32_SystemEnclosure. The variable is located at the following WMI path: ROOT\CIMV2\Win32_SystemEnclosure.

 

I doubt that this is so easy yet it would be fun to learn that Lenovo uses that variable to enable or disable certain hardware features support.

 

You could check what the value of the variable in your current installation is like so. Copy and paste the following text into a notepad window, then save it as "chassis-test.vbs".

strComputer = "."
Set objWMIService = GetObject("winmgmts:" _
    & "{impersonationLevel=impersonate}!\\" & strComputer & "\root\cimv2")
Set colChassis = objWMIService.ExecQuery _
    ("Select * from Win32_SystemEnclosure")
For Each objChassis in colChassis
    For  Each strChassisType in objChassis.ChassisTypes
        Wscript.Echo strChassisType
    Next
Next

Then you can just double-click on the saved file and it should produce a popup window with the chassis type, represented as a number.

The following page has the legend for what each value means and also the source where I fetched the script from:

https://devblogs.microsoft.com/scripting/how-can-i-determine-if-a-computer-is-a-laptop-or-a-desktop-...

 

The script is safe to use.

Please post your result.

FreedomReapr
Punch Card
Posts: 21
Registered: ‎10-31-2019
Location: US
Views: 612
Message 126 of 173

Re: P53 Performance Issues - Thermal/Power Throttling?

When it comes to thermal throttling, I have noticed the fan curve is extremely inadequate when it comes to cooling the CPU (P73 Xeon 2276). Even when changing the BIOS performance settings to maximum. You would think Lenovo would give the "performance" setting more performance for those who do not mind the additional noise... One can only hope for a future update...

nvsnow
SCSI Port
Posts: 77
Registered: ‎11-09-2019
Location: US
Views: 599
Message 127 of 173

Re: GPU Throttling Mystery SOLVED!

ThinkpadIL sure.. Script returned 10
nvsnow
SCSI Port
Posts: 77
Registered: ‎11-09-2019
Location: US
Views: 594
Message 128 of 173

Re: P53 Performance Issues - Thermal/Power Throttling?


@FreedomReapr wrote:

When it comes to thermal throttling, I have noticed the fan curve is extremely inadequate when it comes to cooling the CPU (P73 Xeon 2276). Even when changing the BIOS performance settings to maximum. You would think Lenovo would give the "performance" setting more performance for those who do not mind the additional noise... One can only hope for a future update...


I agree. The Max Perf should be used for the Middle setting and Max Perf needs more fan speed.

nvsnow
SCSI Port
Posts: 77
Registered: ‎11-09-2019
Location: US
Views: 583
Message 129 of 173

Re: GPU Throttling Mystery SOLVED!


@La_Marmotte wrote:

@nvsnow Hi! These are good news at last! You're giving hope to everyone here and we couldn't thank you enough. I'd like you to tell us a bit more about your settings and your method please, I'd like to replicate all what you've done and see if I can observe the same results.

a) Did you download your graphics driver directly from Nvidia's website?

b) How does your P53 behave when on Discrete Mode in BIOS?

c) Which lenovo softwares/drivers do you NOT recommend to download or install?

d) Could you check cpu and GPU temps while you run your benchmarks?

e) Do you have the "Airplane mode" setting available on your version of Vantage?

 

Thanks again!


Yes!

a) I used the original drivers at first, then downloaded the latest from Nvidia. They work fine as well.

 

b) Discrete mode worked as expected. Hybrid doesn't seem to compromise performance and you can save additional wattage.

 

c) Good question. Before this solution, I was wary of drivers and settings, but now performance is stable. As for monitoring Cpu/Gpu utils, I noticed that GPU-Z can take up 5+% of cpu in the background whereas HWiNFo only takes around 1%. Something to be aware of.

 

d) In Max Perf mode: CPU 95 C and GPU under 75 C. Fans around 2000+K RPM. Defnitely room for more improvement here in terms of fan speed.

 

e) Surprisingly, the battery threshold works the way I want... limit max charge. Before, this feature used to force battery mode to get to lower threshold. It was so bad and dumb.

 

Vantagejpg.jpg

 

 

lenovotv
Token Ring
Posts: 599
Registered: ‎05-24-2018
Location: CA
Views: 553
Message 130 of 173

Re: GPU Throttling Mystery SOLVED!

Hi nvsnow, thanks for the hardwork and sharing. I have some questions:

 

1. Can't we just change the computer name from LAPTOP- to DESKTOP- without reinstalling Windows?

2. If we download Windows from MS page or install Windows from a boxed usb thumb drive, where do we get all the drivers for the P53 and also vintage? Is there a site that we can download all the required drivers (not in the Windows OS)?

3. Does your method work for all CPU-GPU-LCD screen configuration(s) or only certain configurations?

4. If we reinstall windows, do we have to be careful or risk deleteing some hidden partitions such as factory image or other hidden partitions?

 

Thanks

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