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Venetach
Fanfold Paper
Posts: 19
Registered: ‎05-22-2019
Location: US
Views: 1,410
Message 11 of 173

Re: P53 Performance Issues - Thermal/Power Throttling?

So what does this mean?  Just a firmware update or a drivers update?

 

I hate to be buying something on the promise of a future fix yet to come...I should be getting mine on Monday but only have to the 16th to return my Dell.

ve2mrx
802.11n
Posts: 263
Registered: ‎07-07-2019
Location: CA
Views: 1,403
Message 12 of 173

Re: P53 Performance Issues - Thermal/Power Throttling?

Hi MMLMTT,

 

Some people don't want to open a ticket (I've been told it's useless by a forum user!), but I'm sure you are happy you did after all. I myself opened two in the last few months, and I'm happy with the results.

 

Now, yes, it's normal for Turbo Boost Short Power Max to be set higher than Turbo Boost Power Max. The idea is that the CPU does not warm up instantly (has a thermal mass) and while it's "cold", it takes more time for the temperature to rise. So, it can generate more heat before getting hot. However, once hot, it takes less heat to keep it hot. Pretty much like in winter when you turn the heat in a cold room. At first, the heating system runs at MAX until the room is warm, then just a bit.

 

So, the CPU, when "cold", is allowed to run up to 91.000W for 28 seconds (or until the temperature reaches a certain level) and then up to a max ot 59.750W (again, until the temperature reaches a certain level). During this, as the CPU gets "hot", it lowers it's core frequency to stay in the temperature limit. If the temperature rises too much (usually 100C), it's Thermal Throttle. It basically puts the CPU on "pause", during which little heat is generated, so it cools.

 

The beauty of all this is that it's mostly handled by the CPU itself with little external help. I'm old, I remember the AMD Athlon (iirc) that would burn itself up (with plenty of smoke!) if you removed the heatsink/fan... Nowadays, you could run an Intel CPU with no heatsink, and except for having a lousy performance, the system would run without damage (at least for a couple days).

 

One last note: Turbo Boost should be considered a form of "bonus". The CPU is intended to run continuously at the Base frequency, and other conditions permitting (temperature, current, power), speeds up until one of those resources is maxed out. That's why the Turbo Boost multipliers are set per number of active cores. The CPU has more headroom per core if there are fewer cores active at a time!

 

That means that on my machine (I7-8750H, 2.2GHz up to 4.1GHz, 6 core Hyper-Threading, TDP 45W) I can get up to 4.1GHz (41x100MHz) only if 1-2 cores are active. At 5 or more, the limit is 3.9GHZ (39x100MHz). My base frequency is 2.2GHz, so I should never get lower unless something is broken! My average is 3.86GHz, close enough.

 

The I9-9880H is 2.3GHz up to 4.8GHz, 8 cores Hyper-Threading, TDP 45W. It kinda means you won't see 4.8GHz unless you park 6 cores (look it up in XTU). So, throttling is something to live with in some form, as long as it's "in family" as NASA would say. I like the way Intel XTU shows all of it. It's clear and complete, and lets you void your warranty if you want to ;-)

 

Happy computing on your powerhouse!

Martin

 

I'm a user, NOT a Lenovo employee. If my post helped, consider giving me a Kudos. If I solved your issue, please mark it as Solved.
P52 I7-8750H P1000 FHD 16GB 512GB-SSD 1TB-HDD
edcircus
Paper Tape
Posts: 6
Registered: ‎08-16-2019
Location: US
Views: 1,315
Message 13 of 173

Re: P53 Performance Issues - Thermal/Power Throttling?

There's something else going on besides throttling I think. I'm noticing cpu speeds jump around all the time from 781 to 4.3 and back down over and over in the course of seconds. I contacted Lenovo about it and they say it's a known and serious issue. Right now, I'm barely getting by on just running the audio software I use. My software just can't handle anything that is cpu stressing like soft synths. It does fine with samplers. I'm thinking I'll return the machine, although I really want it to work.

wwakefield
Paper Tape
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎12-15-2016
Location: US
Views: 1,111
Message 14 of 173

Re: P53 Performance Issues - Thermal/Power Throttling?

So I missed all these replies due to notifications being sent to junkmail... 

I don't have any major solutions, but I did install the latest drivers from Nvidia (431.94) and it seemed to help on the framerate drops in game, but it's definitely not solved. I undervolted to try and help the thermals and while it seems to have made some differences on how much it throttles, I'm not sure I've actively noticed a marked improvement in performance. In fact, now that I'm looking at it to see how much I undervolted, it's back at default, so I'm scratching my head a little on why that didn't save.

 

On a semi related note; I also think there's some goofyness in the handoff from the laptop to the Thunderbolt dock. I've had several instances where the windows interface was just a little laggy until I did a restart.

 

I feel like it's all driver issues, and in general I'm still pretty happy with this machine; I work in CAD, Sketchup, and several other related programs and it's been flying through all that, which is the reason I bought this in the first place.

Wish I had some magic bullet though... Crossing my finger Lenovo/Nvidia will work the bugs out soon.

ve2mrx
802.11n
Posts: 263
Registered: ‎07-07-2019
Location: CA
Views: 1,101
Message 15 of 173

Re: P53 Performance Issues - Thermal/Power Throttling?

Is the default GPU nVidia or Intel? Or maybe dGPU is set in BIOS?

The built-in screen is normally managed by the iGPU, unless dGPU is set in BIOS. It may be a reason for the goofyness? The communication between both drivers has apparently caused issues earlier this year.

Martin
I'm a user, NOT a Lenovo employee. If my post helped, consider giving me a Kudos. If I solved your issue, please mark it as Solved.
P52 I7-8750H P1000 FHD 16GB 512GB-SSD 1TB-HDD
wwakefield
Paper Tape
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎12-15-2016
Location: US
Views: 1,094
Message 16 of 173

Re: P53 Performance Issues - Thermal/Power Throttling?

I've played with different settings when I'm not on an external monitor; the processor in use depends on the program I'm using. usually my heavy hitters are handled by the dGPU. Good to know that they're working on the communication between them though, and that might explain some of what I've been seeing
Linux0
Fanfold Paper
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎10-24-2019
Location: US
Views: 838
Message 17 of 173

Re: P53 Performance Issues - Thermal/Power Throttling?

Along with all the prior postings I add my dismal experiences on a P53 i7 hexcore with 16GB ram. I use only Linux, mainly Slackware, but, have latest Fedora 31 & Ubuntu 19.10 on separate partitions. The initial problems with the Elantech touchpad & the new Intel Wifi 6 AX200 were quickly solved. My main stressful use is code development.

 

I expended circa 100 hours trying to get this machine running in a satifactory state. I failed. It was simply never possible to control the perpetual random thermal cpu throtling. It throttled on boot! (dmesg -H) would always show a dozen (or several) overheat warnings amidst the usual diagnostic messages. Or while editing in vim or emacs, the text on screen would get an unwanted dozen warnings. There's no load here. I never moved computer; it sat on a desk.

 

One of my favorite heavy duty tests is to make a squashfs like this

 

     mksquashfs /usr usr.sqfs

 

Perpexingly, this action runs mostly without throttling notes.

 

I disabled nouveau completely & used either the iGPU or installed the proprietary Nvidia GPU. Both worked well. But, how about a BIOS option to use the Intel GPU only?

 

As noted by many others as well, the warped chassis issue was a sign of careless that I have never seen in a ThinkPad over the last 20 years or so of useage & ownership.

 

I'll wait another year & try again with the P54 hoping all these annoyances will have disappeared.

 

 

 

ve2mrx
802.11n
Posts: 263
Registered: ‎07-07-2019
Location: CA
Views: 830
Message 18 of 173

Re: P53 Performance Issues - Thermal/Power Throttling?

Remember that you can set the default GPU in the nVidia control panel, as well as manage per-app preferences.

However, only the BIOS setting can completely turn off the Intel GPU. The nVidia GPU cannot be disabled as the external monitors are not accessible to the Intel GPU.

Martin
I'm a user, NOT a Lenovo employee. If my post helped, consider giving me a Kudos. If I solved your issue, please mark it as Solved.
P52 I7-8750H P1000 FHD 16GB 512GB-SSD 1TB-HDD
ve2mrx
802.11n
Posts: 263
Registered: ‎07-07-2019
Location: CA
Views: 825
Message 19 of 173

Re: P53 Performance Issues - Thermal/Power Throttling?

Hi Linux0,
Have you confirmed proper operations in the Windows provided with the machine? Or was Linux pre-installed in your machine?

Do you understand the different reasons for throttling and why it's normal in many circumstances?

Linux issues might be external to the computer. That's why I recommend you test with the pre-installed OS

Martin

I'm a user, NOT a Lenovo employee. If my post helped, consider giving me a Kudos. If I solved your issue, please mark it as Solved.
P52 I7-8750H P1000 FHD 16GB 512GB-SSD 1TB-HDD
Linux0
Fanfold Paper
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎10-24-2019
Location: US
Views: 820
Message 20 of 173

Re: P53 Performance Issues - Thermal/Power Throttling?

The tests described in my critique of the P53 are those I have run successfully in all previous Thinkpads including my current T540p. What I observe are clearly hardware design charsteristics. I can say nothing about the default OS; I never use it.

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