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ThinkpadIL
Token Ring
Posts: 129
Registered: ‎11-12-2019
Location: IL
Views: 509
Message 81 of 174

Re: P53 Performance Issues - Thermal/Power Throttling?

To me it looks like Lenovo has made a recent change to how their laptops handle performance and cooling. This is all tied to that same slider now. However, that change came with significant software bugs, at least in hybrid graphics systems. This is true across different series. One similar bug that I have encountered in the E590 series is that while the slider does work as expected, something breaks after a reboot and you need to move the slider back and forth again to restore the performance. And, additionally, as long as the system is not in the "Best Performance" mode, the CPU frequency is slaved to the GPU temperature and once that temperature goes above 67C, the CPU throttles to 300MHz.

So I'm curious whether similar problems exist in the P53 series.

Branagh
Fanfold Paper
Posts: 10
Registered: ‎12-05-2019
Location: DE
Views: 501
Message 82 of 174

Re: P53 Performance Issues - Thermal/Power Throttling?

Ah I see. Well, I can reboot and don't have to reset the slider. Apart from that, I don't know if the 67° GPU-CPU problem also occurs, but I don't see many scenarios in which I would want the "better performance" / no fans setting while stressing the GPU at the same time anyways.

ThinkpadIL
Token Ring
Posts: 129
Registered: ‎11-12-2019
Location: IL
Views: 491
Message 83 of 174

Re: P53 Performance Issues - Thermal/Power Throttling?

This is true: once you know about the slider modifying performance, you should be Ok. However, this is far from great for most people because 1) most people don't know about the slider modifying performance; 2) they expect the computer to work properly, even if the performance is not 100%, in any mode of operation. CPU that is throttling to 300MHz renders the machine unusable; 3) having to remember to check on the slider every time you need performance may get old quickly for some people who don't like to remember such things or have too much to remember anyway. For example, I've been doing field recording for a couple of years. Setting up a recording session takes hundreds of small actions, and usually you work under stress to meet the deadline. Every extra thing to check is another extra thing you could forget and a higher risk of a botched recording.

nvsnow
SCSI Port
Posts: 77
Registered: ‎11-09-2019
Location: US
Views: 474
Message 84 of 174

Re: P53 Performance Issues - Thermal/Power Throttling?


@Branagh wrote:

@nvsnow: Ah well, I probably haven't made myself clear enough, I no longer have throttling issues at all. So, for me, unplugging means the memory clock goes down to 800Mhz while the GPU clock remains stable. When I plug in clock speeds instantly go up to normal, however. Anyways, thanks for taking the time to try and help!


You've been helpful as well! My recommendation is to make sure save a restore point or image your machine now just in case you want to try different settings or install a software update. It's no fun when the GPU gets throttled unnecessarily. For example, a video that normally takes 1.5 minutes to encode will take 7 whole minutes. 

 

Throttled Benchmark - oh yeah!

 

Unigine.jpgRTX 3000 MemClock throttled @ 800 MHz (Score normally around 4000 @ 1700 MHz)

 

 

 

 

nvsnow
SCSI Port
Posts: 77
Registered: ‎11-09-2019
Location: US
Views: 445
Message 85 of 174

Re: P53 Performance Issues - Thermal/Power Throttling?

I wonder how many people use their mobile workstations on their lap? Everytime I get some level of consistency in GPU speeds, I'll pick it up and sit back on the couch and suddenly the GPU MemClock falls and stays that way.

 

This is my second P53 and there is really no difference in behavior. The good thing is that this one sits flat on the table. The other one 'rocked' so it got obnoxious when typing on it (tested on multiple surfaces to be 100% sure) I didn't notice it much, however, because I generally have it raised on a cooler/stand primarily for ergonomic purposes while on the table or on lap.

 

This is a hot topic here... What are the equivalent mobile workstations for the other big brands? I'd like to check out their forums and see if they're getting similar issues - or better yet, viable workarounds and fixes.

agazpp
Token Ring
Posts: 104
Registered: ‎09-08-2019
Location: US
Views: 408
Message 86 of 174

Re: P53 Performance Issues - Thermal/Power Throttling?

This functionality is implemented in and enforced through Lenovo APS (Active Protection System) driver;

This should stop if you kill ( or disable ) this device ...

 

There might be a difference between P53/73 implementation though ( it so feels from what was posted on this forum earlier)

At least it did for us ...

Other manufacturers also have similar system; Specific implementation will vary; I haven't heard HP version to cause problems, though I am not much into HP, they look kinda lame ...

 

 

P73 6c Xeon, RTX 5000, 2TB NVMe Samsung x 2, 7.6TB 2.5 SATA Micron SSD, 64gb ECC ram
Prior: Razer Blade Pro, Variety of Mac Books (2001 - 2015)
Guru
Posts: 2,148
Registered: ‎04-20-2008
Location: US
Views: 399
Message 87 of 174

Re: P53 Performance Issues - Thermal/Power Throttling?

The switch is in the Vantage application. Just flip it to off and manually set the performance level. I've had no issues with the latest version of Vantage and the SIF driver update on either my P1 or P53.

 

https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/us/en/products/laptops-and-netbooks/thinkpad-p-series-laptops/thinkpad-...

 

 

Power5.JPG


P53 XEON 2276 BIOS 1.19 OLED UHD 4K Multi-touch display, 96GB RAM, RTX5000, RAID 1, 1TB x 2 Samsung PM981, 1TB PM981, WWAN
P70 XEON 1505, BIOS 2.32, 4k Display, 64GB, M3000M NVIDIA GPU, RAID1 1TB Samsung PM981 PCIe-NVMe SSD x 2, 2x Samsung 850 Pro 1TB SSD. EM7455 WWAN
P1. BIOS 1.25,Xeon Processor, 4k UHD IPS multi-touch display, 32GB, PM981 1TB x 2, RAID1

I am not an employee nor an agent of Lenovo.
agazpp
Token Ring
Posts: 104
Registered: ‎09-08-2019
Location: US
Views: 400
Message 88 of 174

Re: P53 Performance Issues - Thermal/Power Throttling?

Didn't get to try new version of Vantage;

Since it doesn't bring anything to the table [ other than issues ], I probably won't;

Several people in concurrent threads, who claim they are current on software [ recent, within about a week ], claim they still have same issues, so ...

If it does work, however, it should really default to off, as whole idea to throttle on lap is stupid; I would agree with the other poster on this one;

If one wants to do serious work on the lap, one would need power and would have to cope with heat;

in the alternative, there should be no heat as GPU already thorttles down due to lack of load, hence no issue;

 

Entire thing is a gimmick which have caused quite a few issues for many people it seems

 

 

 

 

P73 6c Xeon, RTX 5000, 2TB NVMe Samsung x 2, 7.6TB 2.5 SATA Micron SSD, 64gb ECC ram
Prior: Razer Blade Pro, Variety of Mac Books (2001 - 2015)
agazpp
Token Ring
Posts: 104
Registered: ‎09-08-2019
Location: US
Views: 393
Message 89 of 174

Re: P53 Performance Issues - Thermal/Power Throttling?

For what it is worth however, there should be a fixed summary write up, describing possible causes to throttling, as well as possible solutions for P53/73 in particular;

Existent threads, of which there are few, are fat and kinda hard to navigate and search for a new person who just happen to join the party

Some issues are caused by thermals (with possible paths to improvement), some by power, others by balancing issues ( power/thermal spreads GPU/CPU) with distinct remedies available [undervaluing or turbo boost specs adjustment for example];

Few are caused however by a lousy software [ and are fairly easily fixable ];

Quite a few people can benefit from such rtfm

 

P73 6c Xeon, RTX 5000, 2TB NVMe Samsung x 2, 7.6TB 2.5 SATA Micron SSD, 64gb ECC ram
Prior: Razer Blade Pro, Variety of Mac Books (2001 - 2015)
Guru
Posts: 2,148
Registered: ‎04-20-2008
Location: US
Views: 378
Message 90 of 174

Re: P53 Performance Issues - Thermal/Power Throttling?

The System Interface Foundation contains the drivers that were in past years separate installs. I am of the opinion that not keeping the SIF drivers current may be the root cause of some of these issues. The default setting of the Intelligient Cooling is "OFF". Vantage turns it on if desired. There is no separate APS driver on my systems.


P53 XEON 2276 BIOS 1.19 OLED UHD 4K Multi-touch display, 96GB RAM, RTX5000, RAID 1, 1TB x 2 Samsung PM981, 1TB PM981, WWAN
P70 XEON 1505, BIOS 2.32, 4k Display, 64GB, M3000M NVIDIA GPU, RAID1 1TB Samsung PM981 PCIe-NVMe SSD x 2, 2x Samsung 850 Pro 1TB SSD. EM7455 WWAN
P1. BIOS 1.25,Xeon Processor, 4k UHD IPS multi-touch display, 32GB, PM981 1TB x 2, RAID1

I am not an employee nor an agent of Lenovo.

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