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Centauri
SCSI Port
Posts: 111
Registered: ‎04-23-2016
Location: US
Views: 2,866
Message 1 of 29

P70 Storage: Configure with 512GB SSD PCIe-NVMe or buy Samsung 950 PRO 512GB PCIe NVMe M2 seperately

I've been keeping an eye on the Thinkpad P70 for a while and I'm ready to buy with the 4K display.

 

I would like to have the fastest ad most robust storage option for the primmary drive.

 

I see that I can configure the P70 with a 512GB SSD PCIe-NVMe straight from Lenovo but this will now incur a 3-4 week additional delay.

 

Or I can buy the laptop from lenovo and buy a Samsung 950 PRO 512GB PCIe NVMe M2 seperately from Amazon for slightly less and Amazon has it ready to ship right away.

 

Are both of these drive options the same? This is what I'm considering buying from Amazon for use with the P70 and I wonder if the PCIe drive option that Lenovo offers is the same "Pro" version below.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-950-PRO-Internal-MZ-V5P512BW/dp/B01639694M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1461...

 

Thanks for any clarification.

Tritip
SCSI Port
Posts: 49
Registered: ‎04-17-2016
Location: US
Views: 2,844
Message 2 of 29

Re: P70 Storage: Configure with 512GB SSD PCIe-NVMe or buy Samsung 950 PRO 512GB PCIe NVMe M2 sepera

More or less yes. The 950 Pro is the consumer version of the SM951 that Lenovo uses. You can look up both on Samsung's site to see the differences.

 

However, if you want the "fastest and most robust storage option" you'll want the RAID 0 m2 512 option. That nearly maxes out the theoretical read and write specs for 4 lane NVMe 3.0 connectors at about 3.8GB/s for both in real life tests. Otherwise, you are looking at 2.5GB/s read, 1.5 GB/s write as a single m2. You can't activate RAID unless the system is ordered that way (different motherboards.)

 

(FYI: the 256 drives do not have these same numbers; they are 2.2 GB/s read and 1.8 GB/s write)

Guru
Posts: 1,815
Registered: ‎04-20-2008
Location: US
Views: 2,841
Message 3 of 29

Re: P70 Storage: Configure with 512GB SSD PCIe-NVMe or buy Samsung 950 PRO 512GB PCIe NVMe M2 sepera

There is a  new 1TB SSD, SM961, which uses a new storage controller interface (Polaris). That controller runs at the speed of the PCIe interface. The drive is currently configurable on the P70, P50 and T460s.


P70 XEON 1505, BIOS 2.31, UHD 4k Display, 64GB non-ECC RAM, M3000M NVIDIA GPU, RAID 1 512GB Samsung 951 PCIe-NVMe SSD x 2, 2x Samsung 850 Pro 1TB SSD. EM7455 WWAN
P1. BIOS 1.23,Xeon Processor, 32GB, PM981 1TB x 2, RAID 1
T470s, 16GB RAM, BIOS 1.10, i7-7500, WQHD display, 512GB PM961 PCIe NVMe SSD
Centauri
SCSI Port
Posts: 111
Registered: ‎04-23-2016
Location: US
Views: 2,829
Message 4 of 29

Re: P70 Storage: Configure with 512GB SSD PCIe-NVMe or buy Samsung 950 PRO 512GB PCIe NVMe M2 sepera


@harrisb wrote:

There is a  new 1TB SSD, SM961, which uses a new storage controller interface (Polaris). That controller runs at the speed of the PCIe interface. The drive is currently configurable on the P70, P50 and T460s.


Is there a 512GB SSD version that uses the new controller that I can buy on Amazon as Lenovo has  a 3-4 week delay if I opt to configure a P70 with their PCIe drive.

 

I'lll be using this for Visual Studio development and RAID is not as important for me since everything is backed up. I'm wondering if the following drive would offer sufficient performance for my needs though it would be nice to benefit from the full capabilities of the PCIe interface...

 

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-950-PRO-Internal-MZ-V5P512BW/dp/B01639694M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1461...

Tritip
SCSI Port
Posts: 49
Registered: ‎04-17-2016
Location: US
Views: 2,822
Message 5 of 29

Re: P70 Storage: Configure with 512GB SSD PCIe-NVMe or buy Samsung 950 PRO 512GB PCIe NVMe M2 sepera

The new Polaris series has technically only been announced at the beginning of this month in Japan. The OEM version (which everyone, including me, assumes is the new 1TB) hasn't been officially released either but it was announced at least. It does run faster than the SM951 and has higher IOPS but to actually hit the max write speed of the x4 PCIe 3.0 NVMe, it also has to be in RAID 0. 

 

There is no word of a consumer version ever coming out at this point of the polaris drives and Samsung has not said if there will be a 960 Pro using it (they still want to keep 950 Pro sales up.)

 

I'll know about the new 1TB model number in May when my P70 arrives and I think I have one of the first of those orders since no one else has been able to actually list the model number. (And all of the Lenovo documents on P70 hardware don't have a part number for it yet.)

 

Visual Studio has a lot of applications in development. I don't think anyone could tell you how much your demands on read and write performance to a drive are just based on that. You may be working on something that is more RAM intensive and takes very little advantage of the drive speed. That being said, m2 NVMe drives like the 950 Pro are a whole league of fast above regular SATA3 SSDs (at least 4-5 times) even as a single drive. The RAID and even these newer Polaris drives are eeking out a smaller percentage in gains on speed and increasing queue depth. The RAID 0 is really noticeable only in write speeds (since read is already close to max for the interface even with single drives) with a near doubling. But that's doubling the speed of something that's already x4-5 faster than SSDs.

Tritip
SCSI Port
Posts: 49
Registered: ‎04-17-2016
Location: US
Views: 2,821
Message 6 of 29

Re: P70 Storage: Configure with 512GB SSD PCIe-NVMe or buy Samsung 950 PRO 512GB PCIe NVMe M2 sepera

Oh, and there will be a 512 GB version in the Polaris drives.

Guru
Posts: 1,815
Registered: ‎04-20-2008
Location: US
Views: 2,815
Message 7 of 29

Re: P70 Storage: Configure with 512GB SSD PCIe-NVMe or buy Samsung 950 PRO 512GB PCIe NVMe M2 sepera

My T460S arrives on Monday. I'll post the 1TB drive number after I start it up.


P70 XEON 1505, BIOS 2.31, UHD 4k Display, 64GB non-ECC RAM, M3000M NVIDIA GPU, RAID 1 512GB Samsung 951 PCIe-NVMe SSD x 2, 2x Samsung 850 Pro 1TB SSD. EM7455 WWAN
P1. BIOS 1.23,Xeon Processor, 32GB, PM981 1TB x 2, RAID 1
T470s, 16GB RAM, BIOS 1.10, i7-7500, WQHD display, 512GB PM961 PCIe NVMe SSD
Tritip
SCSI Port
Posts: 49
Registered: ‎04-17-2016
Location: US
Views: 2,808
Message 8 of 29

Re: P70 Storage: Configure with 512GB SSD PCIe-NVMe or buy Samsung 950 PRO 512GB PCIe NVMe M2 sepera

Unfortunately, I don't think the T460s is using the same 1TB drive as the P70. The price to go from:

512 GB Solid State Drive, SATA3  >>>  1 TB SSD PCIe-NVMe

 

on the T460s is $185 

on the P70 it is $470

 

Historically, for the same parts, Lenovo (and IBM) charge the same prices independent of model. I'm guessing for the T460s they are using a lower power part. It may be a case of using the PM961 on the T460s and the SM961 on the P70.
I can tell you that the T460s 1 TB drive is a Samsung (there are some Toshiba m2 PCIe-NVMe drives that are in use by Lenovo in the Thinkpads). The part number is:


P/N: 00UP414  

Desc: 1T,M.2,2280,PCIe3x4,SAMSG,STD

 

Weird thing is that's from the Jan 20, 2016 parts list which was before the April Samsung announcement. (As mentioned before, the P70 does not have a part listed yet in their parts list "frubom" for a 1TB PCIe-NVMe drive.)

Centauri
SCSI Port
Posts: 111
Registered: ‎04-23-2016
Location: US
Views: 2,800
Message 9 of 29

Re: P70 Storage: Configure with 512GB SSD PCIe-NVMe or buy Samsung 950 PRO 512GB PCIe NVMe M2 sepera


@Tritip wrote:

The new Polaris series has technically only been announced at the beginning of this month in Japan. The OEM version (which everyone, including me, assumes is the new 1TB) hasn't been officially released either but it was announced at least. It does run faster than the SM951 and has higher IOPS but to actually hit the max write speed of the x4 PCIe 3.0 NVMe, it also has to be in RAID 0. 

 

There is no word of a consumer version ever coming out at this point of the polaris drives and Samsung has not said if there will be a 960 Pro using it (they still want to keep 950 Pro sales up.)

 

I'll know about the new 1TB model number in May when my P70 arrives and I think I have one of the first of those orders since no one else has been able to actually list the model number. (And all of the Lenovo documents on P70 hardware don't have a part number for it yet.)

 

Visual Studio has a lot of applications in development. I don't think anyone could tell you how much your demands on read and write performance to a drive are just based on that. You may be working on something that is more RAM intensive and takes very little advantage of the drive speed. That being said, m2 NVMe drives like the 950 Pro are a whole league of fast above regular SATA3 SSDs (at least 4-5 times) even as a single drive. The RAID and even these newer Polaris drives are eeking out a smaller percentage in gains on speed and increasing queue depth. The RAID 0 is really noticeable only in write speeds (since read is already close to max for the interface even with single drives) with a near doubling. But that's doubling the speed of something that's already x4-5 faster than SSDs.


Thanks for the detailed explanation. So it seems like for my needs I should just fo with the 950 Pro on Amazon. It is only about $310 and I can have it delivered in 2 days and not hold up the P70 delivery as Lenovo is projecting a 3-4 week delay.

 

My plan is to order a P70 with the 4K display and the lowest storage option possible and then upgrade with a 512 GB 950 Pro M.2 drive and then a 2TB SSD for the data.

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01639694M/ref=s9_simh_gw_g147_i2_r?ie=UTF8&fpl=fresh&pf_rd_m=ATVPD...

Guru
Posts: 1,815
Registered: ‎04-20-2008
Location: US
Views: 2,715
Message 10 of 29

Re: P70 Storage: Configure with 512GB SSD PCIe-NVMe or buy Samsung 950 PRO 512GB PCIe NVMe M2 sepera

T460s is in house now. The SSD is a 1TB Samsung NVMe MZSLW1T0.  Unfortunately, I cannot not determine what this p/n as a Google search shows absolutely nothing. Any ideas here. It's probably the PM961, but I cannot make any determination w/o opening up the unit. Thoughts here?

 


@Tritip wrote:

Unfortunately, I don't think the T460s is using the same 1TB drive as the P70. The price to go from:

512 GB Solid State Drive, SATA3  >>>  1 TB SSD PCIe-NVMe

 

on the T460s is $185 

on the P70 it is $470

 

Historically, for the same parts, Lenovo (and IBM) charge the same prices independent of model. I'm guessing for the T460s they are using a lower power part. It may be a case of using the PM961 on the T460s and the SM961 on the P70.
I can tell you that the T460s 1 TB drive is a Samsung (there are some Toshiba m2 PCIe-NVMe drives that are in use by Lenovo in the Thinkpads). The part number is:


P/N: 00UP414  

Desc: 1T,M.2,2280,PCIe3x4,SAMSG,STD

 

Weird thing is that's from the Jan 20, 2016 parts list which was before the April Samsung announcement. (As mentioned before, the P70 does not have a part listed yet in their parts list "frubom" for a 1TB PCIe-NVMe drive.)


 


P70 XEON 1505, BIOS 2.31, UHD 4k Display, 64GB non-ECC RAM, M3000M NVIDIA GPU, RAID 1 512GB Samsung 951 PCIe-NVMe SSD x 2, 2x Samsung 850 Pro 1TB SSD. EM7455 WWAN
P1. BIOS 1.23,Xeon Processor, 32GB, PM981 1TB x 2, RAID 1
T470s, 16GB RAM, BIOS 1.10, i7-7500, WQHD display, 512GB PM961 PCIe NVMe SSD

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