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practical
802.11n
Posts: 354
Registered: ‎10-19-2008
Location: US
Views: 2,241
Message 1 of 16

Samsung Magician and Lenovo-supplied NVMe SSD

For several months, I have had Samsung Magician 4.97 installed on my P70's Windows 7 and Windows 10  boot drives -- both are original Lenovo-suppled and installed 512 GB Samsung NVMe drives. 

 

This utility offered limited functionality, simply recognizing the drives and allowing them to be benchmarked, tested and described but nothing else.  No ability to update firmware, adjust caching or over-provision the drives.  Moreover, Lenovo has previously not responded to my posted queries regarding how to update the firmware on these units, as they are out of sync -- one of the devices has a much older rev. level than the other and I dare not try to set-up a RAID array under these conditions.

 

I was hoping the newly released Ver. 5.00 of Magician would remedy this.  However, circumstances have become worse, as the utility does not even "see" the two NVMe drives.

 

Does anyone else have experience with 5.00 or a potential fix to the firmware update issue?  Any insights or opinions would be appreciated.  

______________________________________________
P70, Xeon 1505 CPU, 64 GB ECC RAM, Samsung 970 Pro 1 TB + 512 GB NVMe Drives, 1 TB HDD, DVD-RW, 4 K Display, NVIDIA Quadro M4000
W700 model 2757-CTO (8 GB RAM, Crucial MX-100 SSD + Hitachi TravelStar 1 TB 7200 RPM Drives, Bluray R/W, NVIDIA Quadro FX3700M, WUXGA); Windows 7 Ultimate SP-1, W700 Mini-Dock
Community SeniorMod
Community SeniorMod
Posts: 8,964
Registered: ‎01-01-2010
Location: US
Views: 2,191
Message 2 of 16

Re: Samsung Magician and Lenovo-supplied NVMe SSD

There are 2 types of Samsung SSDs: the retail drives, sold directly to consumers in boxes with manufacurer's warranty, and the OEM drives that are sold by system builders as part of systems.  OEM drives are covered by the warranty on the system and are not covered by Samsung's warranty.  Magician provides full functionality only on retail drives


Rich


I do not respond to requests for private, one-on-one help. Your questions should be posted in the appropriate forum where they may help others as well.

If a response answers your question, please mark it as the accepted solution.

I am not an employee or agent of Lenovo.
nkaufman
HDMI
Posts: 200
Registered: ‎01-19-2016
Location: US
Views: 2,171
Message 3 of 16

Re: Samsung Magician and Lenovo-supplied NVMe SSD

Looking at the following article from Amy_Lenovo:

https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-P-and-W-Series-Mobile/Can-I-add-a-Samsung-950-Pro-NVMe-SSD-to-...

 

"As result, Lenovo recommend purchasing a ThinkPad M.2 PCIe-NVMe SSD to guarantee support of HDD passwords, device power management, encryption, and device thermal management on ThinkPads."

 

So, get OEM NVMe SSD, one gets only system warranty, and support of HDD passwords, device power management, encryption, and device thermal management but NO Magician support.

 

Get retail drive - one gets full warranty, Magician support but NO support of HDD passwords, device power management, encryption, and device thermal management.

 

If correct, then how MESSED up is that??

practical
802.11n
Posts: 354
Registered: ‎10-19-2008
Location: US
Views: 2,149
Message 4 of 16

Re: Samsung Magician and Lenovo-supplied NVMe SSD

"Messed-up" is not a strong enough term.  Those of us who pay a very substantial premium for authentic Lenovo OEM parts have an expectation that they will be properly supported.  I would have no issue with the Samsung utilities not working properly with ThinkPads IF  Lenovo supplied adequate utilities and support for the parts it supplies.

 

As it stands, we are cursed with orphan components; no firmware updates, no ability to adjust performance characteristics, etc.  In my case, that a machine shipped with parts (at the same time) with different rev. level firmware and no recourse to correct the situation, is beyond unreasonable. 

______________________________________________
P70, Xeon 1505 CPU, 64 GB ECC RAM, Samsung 970 Pro 1 TB + 512 GB NVMe Drives, 1 TB HDD, DVD-RW, 4 K Display, NVIDIA Quadro M4000
W700 model 2757-CTO (8 GB RAM, Crucial MX-100 SSD + Hitachi TravelStar 1 TB 7200 RPM Drives, Bluray R/W, NVIDIA Quadro FX3700M, WUXGA); Windows 7 Ultimate SP-1, W700 Mini-Dock
nkaufman
HDMI
Posts: 200
Registered: ‎01-19-2016
Location: US
Views: 2,136
Message 5 of 16

Re: Samsung Magician and Lenovo-supplied NVMe SSD

I've ordered a P50 with 1TB NVMe.

 

Am wondering if I should cancel my order (it has not been shipped yet) and place another order with spinner HDD and wait for full support from Lenovo for retail Samsung SSD.

 

I was being polite with 'MESSED' there are other words that do come readily to mind but there is a filter that stops me from either saying or typing.Smiley Happy

practical
802.11n
Posts: 354
Registered: ‎10-19-2008
Location: US
Views: 2,130
Message 6 of 16

Re: Samsung Magician and Lenovo-supplied NVMe SSD

Like many problems, no clear solution.  Here are the apparent trade-offs:

 

  • Buy from Lenovo and get their warranty coverage (basic or enhanced, on-site, etc). on the hardware but seemingly not much support on the software end.  If there are no issues with stock levels of parts (always a bit of a crap shoot), generally Lenovo is quite responsive for repairs or replacements of defective items.
  • Buy a retail part, have Samsung's warranty on the hardware (which is, from what I hear, a bit of a pain when necessary to invoke, with potentially a long cycle time for fulfillment and satifaction) but presumed full functionality of their software tools.

 

So, you have to decide which of two sub-optimal solutions to accept.  I opted for Lenovo, concerned about reliability of new tech like NVMe drives, needing high availability of the system and being familiar with Lenovo's service options.  It is unfortunate that one cannot have the best of both worlds, as would be reasonably expected from a top-tier vendor of high-end equipment. 

 

When you buy a car, the manufacturer never tells you that you must fill-up the tires with air only their own dealers' pumps and further, that they will not ensure compatibility with the rest of the industry's tools......

 

______________________________________________
P70, Xeon 1505 CPU, 64 GB ECC RAM, Samsung 970 Pro 1 TB + 512 GB NVMe Drives, 1 TB HDD, DVD-RW, 4 K Display, NVIDIA Quadro M4000
W700 model 2757-CTO (8 GB RAM, Crucial MX-100 SSD + Hitachi TravelStar 1 TB 7200 RPM Drives, Bluray R/W, NVIDIA Quadro FX3700M, WUXGA); Windows 7 Ultimate SP-1, W700 Mini-Dock
nkaufman
HDMI
Posts: 200
Registered: ‎01-19-2016
Location: US
Views: 2,122
Message 7 of 16

Re: Samsung Magician and Lenovo-supplied NVMe SSD

Well, apart from the car analogy, what I fail to understand is:

 

How can users update drives for all other third party components (when those drivers become available) etc but not for Samsung NVMe drives?

 

That is bizarre.

tk-don
Token Ring
Posts: 116
Registered: ‎01-30-2016
Location: Denmark
Views: 2,117
Message 8 of 16

Re: Samsung Magician and Lenovo-supplied NVMe SSD

I recently bought a nice T460s for a family member - slightly used only. Very lovely laptop I must say, with 256 GB of Samsung SSD. I also have a P50 but with HDDs as my personal laptop, which is qhy I frequent this forum. But you got to be kidding me - the Magician Tool cannot even report how many bytes have been written to the SSD in its lifetime. Does anyone know how to see this "wear level" anywhere on OEM Samsungs?

 

This make me really not see the point in OEM SSDs. I suppose this is mostly Samsung's decision/policy, but it would be nice if Lenovo offered a similar tool to see this - actually less bloated and more simplistic would be nice Smiley Happy

practical
802.11n
Posts: 354
Registered: ‎10-19-2008
Location: US
Views: 2,111
Message 9 of 16

Re: Samsung Magician and Lenovo-supplied NVMe SSD

My guess (and that's all it is) is that OEM versions of these drives have a different embedded signature which identifies them as such and "to be excluded" from retail support tools and manufacturers warranty support.  That would be perfectly OK if Lenovo repackaged Samsung's tools or provided an alternative which included basic functionality expected by SSD users.

 

Some of Lenovo's OEM parts do, in-fact, receive periodic firmware updates -- some CD-R drives were updated fairly recently, for example.  It is exasperating that items which are still rapidly evolving (e.g. NVMe drives) are not given the same degree of attention. 

 

At the end of the day, it is probably an "economy" measure as there is no other explanation that readily comes to mind.

______________________________________________
P70, Xeon 1505 CPU, 64 GB ECC RAM, Samsung 970 Pro 1 TB + 512 GB NVMe Drives, 1 TB HDD, DVD-RW, 4 K Display, NVIDIA Quadro M4000
W700 model 2757-CTO (8 GB RAM, Crucial MX-100 SSD + Hitachi TravelStar 1 TB 7200 RPM Drives, Bluray R/W, NVIDIA Quadro FX3700M, WUXGA); Windows 7 Ultimate SP-1, W700 Mini-Dock
practical
802.11n
Posts: 354
Registered: ‎10-19-2008
Location: US
Views: 2,109
Message 10 of 16

Re: Samsung Magician and Lenovo-supplied NVMe SSD

The fingers point both ways -- clearly Samsung opts-out of incurring support costs for components they sell in bulk to OEMS, while the OEMS do not want to spend to support third-party parts that they embed.

 

In the end, economics carry the day and consumers always get the short-end of the stick....

______________________________________________
P70, Xeon 1505 CPU, 64 GB ECC RAM, Samsung 970 Pro 1 TB + 512 GB NVMe Drives, 1 TB HDD, DVD-RW, 4 K Display, NVIDIA Quadro M4000
W700 model 2757-CTO (8 GB RAM, Crucial MX-100 SSD + Hitachi TravelStar 1 TB 7200 RPM Drives, Bluray R/W, NVIDIA Quadro FX3700M, WUXGA); Windows 7 Ultimate SP-1, W700 Mini-Dock

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