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SeniorGuru
Posts: 2,308
Registered: ‎06-13-2013
Location: US
Views: 587
Message 11 of 56

Re: Thinkpad P52 HDMI sound output issues

For purposes of gathering diagnostic information that will be helpful to Lenovo engineering, can BOTH of you (@sikhness with your P52 presumably going directly from laptop to external display/monitor/HDTV with speakers, and @Sonic4 with your P72 going through Thunderbolt 3 dock to external display/monitor/HDTV with speakers) please provide some screenshots and a bit more description.

 

Specifically, screenshots from both (a) Device Manager and (b) nVidia Control Panel are very useful.  And it's important to have a set of screenshots both BEFORE the problem starts occurring, and then also AFTER it starts occurring, to see if there's anything internal in Windows that has changed or if it's likely purely a hardware/firmware/BIOS issue.

 

(1) In Device Manager, please expand "Display Adapters".  Then right-click on each your nVidia and Intel display adapters one at a time to get the Properties windows for each.  then select the "drivers" tab and pull what you have displayed apart so that the screenshot will show everything. The purpose is to show the graphics devices present and associated driver for each of the two GPU's.

 

(2) Same with "Sound" in Device Manager. Please expand, to show all devices.  You probably have both an nVidia High Definition Audio (digital, for external sound via HDMI) device as well as a Realtek HD Audio (analog, laptop speakers) available, one of which will have been selected as current "default".  Again, right-click to get Properties, then select "drivers" tab to show the device and driver version and separate the windows so that the screenshot shows all useful information.

 

(3) In nVidia Control Panel, over on the left in the "Display" group select "Set up digital audio" to get that presentation on the right.  In the middle of the right side there is a "Open Windows sound settings" button.  Push that button, to get the Sound window showing all available "Playback Devices" and which one is currently selected as the default. Again, spread the windows before taking the screenshot so that all useful information will be captured.

 

(4) Also in nVidia Control Panel, over on the left in the "3D Settings" group select "Set PhysX configuration".  This presents a graphical picture of your connections and devices.   It's useful.  Take a screenshot.

 

 

If you provide a baseline reference set of screenshots after a new re-boot when everything is working normally, and then a second set of screenshots after the laptops have "gone to sleep and come back out" (or whatever else triggers the symptom), at least it will be known whether the "Sound" setup in Device Manager is still attempting to use nVidia HDMI Audio or not.  And it will also be very clear what graphic and audio devices and drivers are in effect.

 

The nVidia GPU is supposed to support external displays, which is also how HDMI audio is delivered... through the HDMI Audio driver that also gets installed with the nVidia graphics driver pacakge.  This is supposed to be true no matter whether through a direct connection from laptop to external monitor/display/HDTV (with speakers in it) or to an AVR, or through a dock to get there.  So it shouldn't really matter if you have hybrid or discrete graphics selected in the BIOS.  It is always the nVidia GPU that handles external display/audio output.  But there have been recent issues with seeming conflicts between "discrete graphics" (on P70 with M3000M) and nVidia drivers newer than 392.00, and HDMI audio, which is why I even talked about that possibility for your P52/P72 with P-series nVidia GPU.

 

Anyway, if you can post screenshots both before and after the issue arises, we can at least see if anything has changed after coming back out of sleep.  And we can "see" what we're discussing.

 

Thanks.

sikhness
Punch Card
Posts: 12
Registered: ‎05-13-2019
Location: CA
Views: 551
Message 12 of 56

Re: Thinkpad P52 HDMI sound output issues

Hi DSperber,

 

Just wanted to start off by saying thank you so much for all the help and detailed responses, I very much appreciate them while we work through this issue.

 

So I took Before and After screenshots as discussed and have uploaded them to this post.  You can see that in the After state, the Nvidia sound related devices just dissapear in all cases.  I have to restart the machine to get them back, and even then, more often than not, the sound output is "wavy" sounding as I had mentioned.

 

 

SeniorGuru
Posts: 2,308
Registered: ‎06-13-2013
Location: US
Views: 535
Message 13 of 56

Re: Thinkpad P52 HDMI sound output issues

Well, your "after" screenshots demonstrate exactly the same issue that I had first reported back last December 2018 with my P70 and W530, when I installed the first Lenovo-released nVidia driver package which had a graphics driver component newer than 392.00.  The issue is the "disappearing HDMI audio" device in Device Manager, reverting instead to the remaining internal analog laptop speakers and Realtek audio driver.  And this was the situation that somehow seemed to cure itself recently with nVidia's 430.39.

 

The difference between my own P70 situation and your new P52 situation is that my "disappearing HDMI audio" device was simply always there, even freshly after a re-boot.  There was no involvement of going to sleep-mode or lock-screen making it go away with it having been there initially. It was simply NEVER there!  And then after 430.39 the symptom went away completely.

 

But then I don't let my P70 go into sleep mode or otherwise go to the lock screen.  It's always on.  So maybe I would actually have the very same "disappearing HDMI audio AFTER RETURNING FROM SLEEP" as you are now reporting, if I would let my P70 go to sleep.  I will change my settings today, to allow just that to occur, to see if I too lose my HDMI audio after returning from sleep as is the story with your P52.  And remember that even if you're running in "hybrid graphics" mode, all external display/monitor/HDTV connections are always handled by the nVidia GPU regardless, which is also the case if you're configured for "discrete graphics".  So the story is purely nVidia-related as that's where control over external HDMI-delivered audio is placed.

 

This is very interesting. After my report of this issue to Lenovo back in December, they were able to duplicate it themselves in their lab, and referred it to the OEM audio engineers.  Apparently they determined there WAS a BIOS issue responsible (unclear whether it is specifically for "discrete graphics" or simply involving the nVidia GPU), and actually developed and scheduled a BIOS fix, being totally unaware that appaently nVidia was also apparently independently pursuing their own "fix", since something with 430.39 definitely fixed the problem for my P70.

 

Now I just checked the Lenovo support web site for my P70 and sure enough just yesterday 5/28 they released an updated BIOS 2.30, which per the README contains the following fix:

 

[Problem fixes]
- Fixed an issue where the display audio feature on the HDMI monitor might not work
  when the "Graphics Device" setting was [Discrete Graphics] in Thinkpad Setup.

I have not yet installed this newest BIOS, but it's now on today's agenda.  First I want to see if I let my P70 (with M3000M, running discrete graphics) go to sleep with HDMI audio connected, will my HDMI audio device disappear (as yours does with your P52 and P2000) after returning from sleep.  If I have the same symptom, then obviously the problem (and resolution) runs deeper than just the nVidia driver 430.39 and newer.

 

Then I will install yesterday's Lenovo BIOS 2.30, which purports to fix something (supposedly related to "discrete graphics" but perhaps related to HDMI audio in general as handled by nVidia GPU), to see if with the combination of latest nVidia driver plus latest Lenovo BIOS the "disappearing HDMI audio" EVEN AFTER RETURNING FROM SLEEP is now 100% resolved, or not.  If not, I will communicate this newly observed symptom in the larger issue to Lenovo engineering, namely "disappearing HDMI audio after returning from sleep:... even with the latest Lenovo BIOS fix as well as the newest nVidia driver.

 

More later, after I perform my own P70+sleep tests. Thank you for the very informative screenshots.

SeniorGuru
Posts: 2,308
Registered: ‎06-13-2013
Location: US
Views: 526
Message 14 of 56

Re: Thinkpad P52 HDMI sound output issues

Just an update here.

 

With my P70 (running with discrete graphics, and with laptop screen DARK and only running with external LG HDTV connected via HDMI->HDMI) I am unable to reproduce the symptom you describe.  Again, I'm not running with the laptop screen and external HDTV set to "extended desktop" mode.  I'm only using the external HDTV as my 1920x1080p sole display device, and the laptop screen is not being used.

 

So even without applying yesterday's BIOS update to 2.30 (which purports to have a fix in it that deals with addressing HDMI audio problems), I have no duplicate of your P52 symptom where HDMI audio which was operating normally and properly before the laptop goes to sleep, now disappears (i.e. the HDMI Audio Device in Device Manager disappears, leaving only the laptop analog speakers usable for sound) when the laptop comes back out of sleep.  In fact, when my laptop comes back out of sleep it still has HDMI audio in Device Manager and the sound is still being delivered from laptop to HDTV via HDMI cable.

 

Now there IS a more recent driver than 430.39 from Nvidia for my P70, as I'm sure there is for you and your P52.  I let GeForce Experience tell me when updates are available, and so I did let the update to 430.86 (released on 5/27) get installed. I don't know if that might make any difference for you, but it's worth a try I suppose.

 

Anyway, I am afraid I'm unable to reproduce this "HDMI audio disappears after coming out of sleep" symptom on my P70.  Sorry.

Sonic4
Fanfold Paper
Posts: 8
Registered: ‎03-23-2019
Location: DE
Views: 512
Message 15 of 56

Re: Thinkpad P52 HDMI sound output issues

Hi there!

Fist of all, I want to thank everyone who is trying to help us solving this problem.

 

As I've written, I have the same issue as sikhness. I have a P72 with Quadro P3200 and the Thunderbolt Workstation Dock.

 

After a restart, everything is working as it should. But when I go into lookscreen and come back after a few minutes, the Nvidia High Definition Audio controller doesn't work anymore. This occurs with a probability of roughly 80%. The only way to make everything work again is a restart. This problem also occurs when the laptop was in standby.

 

I made a couple of screenshots as DSperber wished. You can find them in the .zip file.

 

The current Nvidia driver I'm using is 430.86

The Windows 10 version is build 17763

 

There are a couple of other laptop manufacturers which are also using this generation of Quadro graphic cards, but I've never heard of a similar problem. I suspect that Lenovo has to fix this issue.

SeniorGuru
Posts: 2,308
Registered: ‎06-13-2013
Location: US
Views: 503
Message 16 of 56

Re: Thinkpad P52 HDMI sound output issues

Thanks to both of you for the perfect before/after set of diagnostic screenshots. These will be extremely helpful to Lenovo.

 

I've now reported this problem (and this thread) to Lenovo engineering, who worked on my original similar P70 problem and eventually came out with the fix in the 2.30 BIOS update for the P70. Of course the P70 problem had already been independently "fixed" by nVidia with their 430.39 driver, somehow correcting whatever they apparently had broken starting with drivers newer than 392.00... independent of the Lenovo BIOS fix relating to "discrete graphics".

 

In any case, you're both using very new nVidia drivers (newer than 430.39), namely 430.64 on the P52 and 430.86 on the P72. So if nVidia's fix for my P70 was applicable to your P52/P72 (running hybrid graphics) you'd think you wouldn't have any type of problem. And in fact your HDMI audio is working perfectly... until going to sleep, after returning from which your HDMI audio device has disappeared from Device Manager.  And I can't reproduce that particular issue on my P70 (running discrete graphics).

 

Anyway, let's give my contact at Lenovo time to do a little research, to see if they can duplicate the symptom. If so, that's the first step to hopefully getting it fixed.  They should be able to decide if the issue is in the P52/P72 BIOS or in the nVidia driver itself, in which case they can open an OEM ticket with nVidia.  Eventually this presumably should be resolved as it is obviously a defect.

 

Let's be patient for now.

SeniorGuru
Posts: 2,308
Registered: ‎06-13-2013
Location: US
Views: 457
Message 17 of 56

Re: Thinkpad P52 HDMI sound output issues

I've now gotten some feedback from Lenovo regarding their attempt to duplicate this issue. Not surprisingly, they were not able to demonstrate the symptom being reported with their P72 running Win10 1809:

 

I tried this on battery, using P72 with P2000 hybrid graphics:

1.  connect P72 to HDMI TV, play a youtube video, make sure sound is working on the TV

2.  Press Fn+4 to make system go to sleep

3.  Wait 30 seconds, then press power button to wake up

4.  Video continues to play, and sound continues to come out of the TV.

I looked at your screenshots, but the 3 sound devices in Device Manager are present before and after the sleep.

 

 

So, can both of you please elaborate on what is the situational setup that can have a better chance of duplicating the symptom in the Lenovo lab?  If you perform the above steps, does it still fail for you, or does it not?

 

Are you both running Win10 1809?  Must they wait until the laptop goes to sleep "naturally" (i.e. with the passage of time and with the lid open), rather than manually forcing it to sleep with Fn+4 or by closing the lid?  Once asleep, do they have to wait for a very long period of time before awakening the laptop, or is simply waiting 30 seconds for your own P52/P72 sufficient to cause the disappearing HDMI audio device symptom to appear? Does it happen both on battery as well as plugged into wall power?

 

We're obviously trying to come up with a properly defined scenario that details all of the setup steps they can use to dependably reproduce the failure, and at least this initial attempt by them to duplicate your symptom has been unsuccessful.  Unless they can duplicate the failure in their lab it's almost impossible to chase down the bug which is obviously affecting both of you.

Sonic4
Fanfold Paper
Posts: 8
Registered: ‎03-23-2019
Location: DE
Views: 422
Message 18 of 56

Re: Thinkpad P52 HDMI sound output issues

Hi there!

In fact the problem doesn't occur with the method from the Lenovo engineer.

 

So here is an instruction for reproducing the issue with a P72 (and most certainly also with a P52).

 

Please perform all steps!

 

Preparations:

1. Make sure that the Laptop is connected to the power supply.

2. Make sure that all Windows updates are installed. The problem occurs definitely with Win10 1809 and 1903.

3. Open the Microsoft Store and update all apps (especially Lenovo Vantage).

4. Open the Lenovo Vantage app und update all drivers.

5. Restart the laptop

 

Further steps for reproducing the issue:

6. Turn on the laptop and log into your Windows account.

7. Press Windows + L for entering the lockscreen.

8. Wait until all screens become black (this usually takes a minute).

9. As soon as all screens are black, wait at least further 7 minutes (very important!). Make sure that all screens stay black for the whole 7 minutes.

10. Log in again. The HDMI (or DP) Sound won't work any more.

 

 

If the problem doesn't occur at the first try, repeat the procedure starting with step 6.

 

If you are unable to reproduce the problem, please download the latets Nvidia driver from the Nvidia website.

 

 

I hope this instruction will help you.

 

It would be great if more P52 and P72 owners could try to reproduce the issue with this instruction.

 

 

SeniorGuru
Posts: 2,308
Registered: ‎06-13-2013
Location: US
Views: 374
Message 19 of 56

Re: Thinkpad P52 HDMI sound output issues


@Sonic4 wrote:

If the problem doesn't occur at the first try, repeat the procedure starting with step 6.

 

If you are unable to reproduce the problem, please download the latets Nvidia driver from the Nvidia website.

 

I'm afraid even with your detailed recipe for duplicating the symptom, Lenovo still hasn't been able to duplicate it with their own machine in their own lab.  But they're not using a dock, and ask if this is critical.  Is it?

 

Also, you have multiple screens attached to your dock. Is this critical?  Or can you reproduce the problem with a single external display?

 

Can you recreate the failure without the dock, and with a single external display?  Or only with the dock, and/or multiple displays connected to the dock?

 

If either one way but not all ways fails for you, that would be informative.  Anyway at the moment they still have not been able to see the symptom with their P72.

 

Finally, what is the meaning and significance of your comment about downloading the latest driver from nVidia (which I think would be 430.86?)? How is this relevant or important?  Are you not using this driver yourself, or is driver version pertinent to duplicating the failure?  Can it be reproduced with all drivers older than a certain version, or newer than a certain version, or just ALL drivers... or not?

 

 

#SIKHNESS, do you have a specific series of steps that Lenovo might follow to try and duplicate your own P52 failure symptom, that should work "guaranteed"?

JaimeGM
Serial Port
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎06-09-2019
Location: ES
Views: 323
Message 20 of 56

Re: Thinkpad P52 HDMI sound output issues

Exact same problem here with Lenovo P1 i7-8850H, 32GB RAM, Quadro P200 conected to a LG 32UD99-W

It happens everytime you come out of deep sleep or hibernation.

 

It will also occur to me sometimes that the screen shows no signal. Pluging and unpluging the USB-C cable does not help. I either need to powercycle the display or the graphics adapter (enabling/disabling via device manager). 

 

The post is here.

 

Any idea is @Lenovo is aware of the issue?

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