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Sonic4
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Registered: ‎03-23-2019
Location: DE
Views: 329
Message 21 of 58

Re: Thinkpad P52 HDMI sound output issues

@DSperber

 

It doesn't matter whether you are using a dock and/or only one screen.
Edit: Please look at message #23

 

If Lenovo wasn't able to reproduce the problem, then they most certainly are not using the newest software updates.

Did they assure you, that they did all the update steps which I described?

 

 

With my comment about the newest Nvidia driver from the Nvidia homepage, I want to find out, whether this causes the problem. Did they test it? I personally use the software directly from Nvidia, but for me, the problem also occured with the driver from Lenovo.

 

 

@JaimeGM

 

Thanks for sharing your experience.

As DSperber wrote, Lenovo won't be able to solve this problem as long as they can't reproduce it.

Nevertheless it is very helpful that you replied to this topic, so we know that also other models are affected.

 

 

SeniorGuru
Posts: 2,315
Registered: ‎06-13-2013
Location: US
Views: 303
Message 22 of 58

Re: Thinkpad P52 HDMI sound output issues

Lenovo says they can't really try an nVidia-provided newer driver. So let's restrict the story to the 419.71 driver which is included inside the latest posted N2CNQ18W driver installer file. So it's important that the symptom is demonstratable using that 419.71 driver.  They still have not been able to reproduce it.

 

Also, it appears all three of you are using LG monitors, but I wanted to be sure all of the details are correct.  Hard to believe it depends on involving an LG monitori:

 

(a) JaimeGM - LG 4K 32UD99-W, probably connected by USB-C cable directly from P1 to monitor

 

(b) sikhness - LG IPS236, probably connected by HDMI cable directly from P52 to monitor

 

(c) Sonic4 - LG 4K of some sort?, along with Dell U2715H both connected to TB3 dock via separate DP cables, with dock probably connected to P72 via USB-C cable. If the TB3 dock is removed and the P72 connected directly to one monitor and the symptom STILL occurs, which monitor is being used and what type of cable connection?

 

Still trying to come up with a way to reliably (or even at all) duplicate this symptom in the Lenovo lab.

Sonic4
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Message 23 of 58

Re: Thinkpad P52 HDMI sound output issues

It's also a LG 4K 32UD99-W.

 

My previous post doesn't seem correct anymore. I just tested again in which constellation this problem is triggered. I tested both monitors one after another separately without dock, connected directly with HDMI. Strangely, the problem didn't occur.

 

When I use the dock, the LG monitor is connected with DP, the Dell monitor with HDMI.

Using this constellation, the sound problems will be triggered.

 

 

It seems as I have to do a few more tests in the next days...

JaimeGM
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Location: ES
Views: 252
Message 24 of 58

Re: Thinkpad P52 HDMI sound output issues

You assumed right.

 

two main problems.

-monitor not coming back from sleep.

-monitor losing audio back to laptop speakers. 

 

Focusing on the monitor now.

 

The exact behaviour is the monitor does not wake up after deep sleep/hibernation. If you push the power button it will say there is no signal in current input. It will also say that there has been detected a signal in other input and prompts you to switch to it. 

 

Since you are in the correct input this makes little sense. 

 

It will wake up if you.

-Power down and power up the monitor.

-Disable and re-enable the graphics adapter.

 

It will not wake up if you

-plug & unplug the cable.

-If I plug a different device via USB-C like my iPad pro (it normally works)

-I need to retest if it wakes up If i use a different connector.

 

Seems like the monitor is crashing since not even connecting another device will wake up the monitor.

 

I’m running tests disabling a feature in the monitor that will send it to stand by when the image doesn’t change for a given time (not to be confused with the monitor not receiving any signal). An static image on screen displayed for a long period of time will trigger standby even if the computer is not telling so.

 

I need to run more test to see if audio issues are also connected.

 

Users with 32UD99-W can post their firmware versions? 

JaimeGM
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Message 25 of 58

Re: Thinkpad P52 HDMI sound output issues

As for today I've discovered external monitor not switching on after long periods of time is (+4 hours) 32UD99-W monitor fault.


There is a setting in the monitor that reads Automatic Standby that will cause the problem. Once the monitor reaches the threshold it will not wake up or recognize the signal in the port it went to sleep at. Interestingly It will say that signal is detected in a different input and will prompt you to switch will still connected to the same input. 
It's almost certainly a firmware fault in the monitor.

Default setting is 4 hours. I set it to disabled and the problem is gone (for 48 hours now).
It' is indeed not necessary to have it enabled as it only performs some kind of force standby whenever it detects that the image didn't change for a long period of time. In a normal scenario the computer would trigger screen saver, black screen or sleep mode. This is therefore not needed.

The monitor will still go to standby normally when no signal is detected.

About the audio.

I still get the yellow mark at times and need to disable/re-enable the audio device to get it back working.

I will continue with the tests  and update the thread.

SeniorGuru
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Views: 211
Message 26 of 58

Re: Thinkpad P52 HDMI sound output issues


@JaimeGM wrote:

As for today I've discovered external monitor not switching on after long periods of time is (+4 hours) 32UD99-W monitor fault.


There is a setting in the monitor that reads Automatic Standby that will cause the problem. Once the monitor reaches the threshold it will not wake up or recognize the signal in the port it went to sleep at. Interestingly It will say that signal is detected in a different input and will prompt you to switch will still connected to the same input. 
It's almost certainly a firmware fault in the monitor.

 


About the audio.

I still get the yellow mark at times and need to disable/re-enable the audio device to get it back working.


So just to be clear, your original post in this thread stated that you were having the same experience with your P1 as the others were having with their P52/P72, which was described as an audio issue expressed as "loss of HDMI audio device in Device Manager after returning from long periods of sleep (or dark screen, lock screen, etc.)".  So at the surface this discussion involves HDMI audio.

 

And through your own additional testing you are now also providing further clarification that there is also a second video symptom in your story.  And apparently both your audio and video symptoms seem very much tied to your use of the LG 32UD99-W 4K UHD monitor and its own particular setup configuration which can clearly impact what is seen by the laptop when the monitor's state changes due to its setup configuration choices..

 

The audio symptom is most clearly explained and summarized by a pair of screenshots taken both (a) BEFORE the "loss of HDMI audio" symptom occurs, as well as (b) AFTER it has occurred, from nVidia Control Panel's "set up digital audio" presentation.  The two screenshots should each be taken after first pushing the "open Windows Sound settings" button that is offered, so that this additional information (i.e. available "Playback Devices", which is really Device Manager "Sound") is also shown in a second open window.  And then both open windows should be included in each larger combined screenshot for both for the BEFORE and AFTER situations.

 

Also, we know that HDMI audio involves an external monitor so now the setup background story should include details of all the hardware being used, meaning what brand/model monitor(s) are being used.  Ideally a screenshot of nVidia Control Panel's "Configure surround, PhysX" presentation is very useful here, again from both the BEFORE and AFTER situations. 

 

And for others and Lenovo to try and duplicate the symptom involves knowing whether the laptop is running in "hybrid graphics" or "discrete graphics", even though in both cases it is the nVidia GPU which is responsible for handling the external display, both for video as well as audio.

 

It is also necessary to know what nVidia driver version is being used (including whether that is part of the older Lenovo-provided graphics installer file or a newer one obtained directly from the nVidia site), and also the BIOS version installed in the laptop.  Once again, a pair of BEFORE and AFTER screenshots is very helpful here, this time taken from Device Manager, one pair taken after first expanding "Display Adapters", and the second pair taken after first expanding "'Sound Controllers", to show what devices are present in both hardware categories.  So a pair of audio/video devices screenshots from BEFORE, and a second pair of audio/video devices screenshots from AFTER.

 

And to further provide all helpful and related infromation each of these four Device Manager screenshots should also include simultaneously open secondary windows produced (from right-click on each device, Properties -> Driver tab) to show the driver date/version being used for each of the audio and video devices shown in each of the two open hardware category expansions. All the combined information presented succinctly in these two pairs of BEFORE/AFTER screenshots is invaluable.

 

Additionally, the story also involves knowing how you are connecting from your laptop to the external monitor(s).  Are you going directly from laptop to monitor through a miniDP->HDMI cable, or through an HDMI->HDMI cable, or through a USB-C cable?  Or, if you are going through a dock to support one or more monitors then how is the laptop connected to the dock?  And of course how are each of the one or more external displays connected to the dock?

 

 

Now in your latest additional post you suggest that due to the newly discovered "automatic standby" option on the LG monitor with its default value of 4 hours), this suggests you should only be seeing your audio/video symptoms after 4 hours.  In other words for ordinary lesser periods of sleep, or dark/lock screen, etc., say 10-15 minutes, that this monitor hardware-standby feature shouldn't have come into play and you shouldn't have seen "loss of HDMI audio device in Device Manager".  Is that true?

 

It does make some intuitive sense that if the monitor itself "drops off" after 4 hours that all of its hardware capabilities, both audio and video, would BOTH somehow drop off and/or even "disappear" from the HDMI connection. Seems like a considerably more "deep sleep" state than simply "power-save mode". So the resulting reaction of Windows Device Manager to the now "really disappeared" hardware ability of the external monitor to handle HDMI audio seems reasonable.  Of course I would probably have expected to now just see "not connected" in Playback Devices (thus making it no longer available for selection as an audio output device), rather than totally disappearing the HDMI audio device in Device Manager.  But the effect is the same, and sort of reasonable, if the monitor in this state is itself conceptually no longer available or able to support HDMI audio sent to it until somehow reawakened appropriately.

 

This all implies that your own "loss of HDMI audio" symptom has probably been appearing only after very long (say overnight) VERY extended sleep/dark/lock periods lasting more than 4 hours after which we now know the monitor enters into a different hardware state?  This seems different to what @Sonic4 has described, which is that for his own "loss of HDMI audio" situation at least 7 minutes is required to trigger it, but nothing like 4 hours is necessary.  And he is using the same LG monitor you are, unless his automatic standby value is set to other than the default 4 hours as you have now found.

 

Finally, you add that even after [temporarily, for testing] disabling the automatic standby option in the LG monitor which has now prevented the "total loss of HDMI audio device in Device Manager" from appearing that you still get "yellow exclamation marks" occasionally and "need to disable/re-enable the audio device to get it back working", that implies the HDMI audio device in Device Manager HAS NOT ACTUALLY DISAPPEARED, in order for you to be able to disable/re-enable it.  Apparently it has "stopped working properly" (perhaps with a stop reason code posted), but it's not been "disappeared from Device Manager".  It is truly still there, but disabled in some way (but not so far as to show "disabled" since you yourself can then do a "disable/re-enable").

 

For fully understanding this "yellow exclamation mark" symptom I think it would be helpful if you could post two sets of BEFORE/AFTER screenshots I described above.  One is from Device Manager with "Sound" devices expanded, and the other is from nVidia Control Panel with "Set up digital audio" selected (and Playback Devices shown).

 

It probably would be very helpful to also have your "PhysX" screenshots from nVidia Control Panel, as well as your "Set up digital audio" screenshots from nVidia Control Panel. Better to have that additional info already here and available in this thread than to not have it and perhaps wish we'd requested it for diagnostic reasons sometime in the future.  Plus confirmation that you're running "hybrid" rather than "discrete" or which (which will already be shown in the Device Manager screenshots of "Display Adapters").

JaimeGM
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Location: ES
Views: 188
Message 27 of 58

Re: Thinkpad P52 HDMI sound output issues

Thanks for your analysis

Since it carries some inaccuracies I'll describe things again briefly for clarity.

 

*The computer is P1 intel i7 (Quadra P2000) connected to an LG 32UD99-W  via USB-C.

*Drivers are the latest to this date trough Lenovo Vantage and LG support.

*Windows version is 1807

*All settings are by default (BIOS, hybrid graphics, driver options including physics....)


*There are 2 issues.

*(Solved) Monitor does not wake up after long periods of inactivity.

    *Will not respond connecting another computer. This is key.

    *Monitor then is somehow crashed.If waken up manually it will say no signal is detected and ask you to switch to a different one.

    *Computer sees no hardware at all.

    *Works again if you power cycle the monitor.

    *Works if you enable and disable the video adapter trough device manager.

    *This is caused by Automatic standby feature in the Monitor. Default setting is 4H. Must be disabled to solve it.

*Audio switching back to the laptop back from seep or hibernation state.

    *Audio device is always present.

    *It sometimes stops working when you see the yellow mark over the device.

    *Already provided pictures for that.If you disable/re-enable the device it will work again.

    *Not HMDI specific.

JaimeGM
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Location: ES
Views: 190
Message 28 of 58

Re: Thinkpad P52 HDMI sound output issues

I'm trying to answer but my replies keep being rejected any idea on how to know why are they being moderated?

Community SeniorMod
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Views: 184
Message 29 of 58

Re: Thinkpad P52 HDMI sound output issues


@JaimeGM wrote:

I'm trying to answer but my replies keep being rejected any idea on how to know why are they being moderated?


Your quick edits are tripping the automated spam filters. It's sometimes overly aggressive that way.  I've restored one of your posts.

 

Z.


The large print: please read the Community Participation Rules before posting. Include as much information as possible: model, machine type, operating system, and a descriptive subject line. Do not include personal information: serial number, telephone number, email address, etc.


The fine print: I do not work for, nor do I speak for Lenovo. Unsolicited private messages will be ignored - questions and answers belong in the forum so that others may contribute and benefit. ... GeezBlog

 

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SeniorGuru
Posts: 2,315
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Views: 165
Message 30 of 58

Re: Thinkpad P52 HDMI sound output issues


@JaimeGM wrote:

*Audio switching back to the laptop back from seep or hibernation state.

    *Audio device is always present.

    *It sometimes stops working when you see the yellow mark over the device.

    *Already provided pictures for that.If you disable/re-enable the device it will work again.

    *Not HMDI specific.


I had already looked at your other thread post where you did provide a picture but it isn't what I was asking for.  Your picture was from Device Manager, but was for the "High Definition Audio Controller" in the "System Devices" category, which is involved with a Microsoft system driver.  Yes, it will indicate whether the device is working or not (and if not perhaps also includes a reason or stop code), and does include an ENABLE/DISABLE ability.  This is also useful additional information, but actually is not what I was asking for.

 

The screenshots I was asking for (in both the BEFORE, i.e. "normal state", as well as AFTER, i.e. "problem state with the yellow exclamation mark present somewhere and the audio "playback devices" now returned to the laptop speakers) are in the "Sound, Video and Game Controllers" category in Device Manager. When you expand that category there are multiple items shown, for both the Realtek analog laptop audio device as well as for the nVidia digital HDMI audio device, and perhaps other devices.  At least these SHOULD be present, normally, when you're using HDMI audio or if you could potentially be using HDMI audio. In other words there IS one or two nVidia-related devices shown in this "Sound" expansion.

 

It is THIS which I was asking for, along with the other screenshots to produce the full set of information that self-explains what your system looks like. In particular it will show (a) what Intel, Realtek, nVidia, driver versions/dates you are using for these devices, and (b) whether or not the nVidia digital HDMI device is still present in this "Sound" category. It can be "disappeared" from here where it is handled by the nVidia HDMI audio driver, and yet you also have an entry that you've pointed to in "System Controllers" for HDMI audio but handled by a Microsoft driver.

 

So if you could post your own set of BEFORE (i.e. "normal", with HDMI audio going to the LG monitor) and AFTER (i.e. "yellow exclamation mark" on the Microsoft HDMI audio device inside "System Controllers" category of Device Manager, with sound now being re-directed to the laptop speakers) screenshots like this collection of screenshots posted previously by @sikhness, that would be very helpful. 

 

From your explanations, and the yellow exclamation mark on the Microsoft HDMI audio device and the fact that you can re-activate your HDMI sound from the LG monitor by DISABLE/RE-ENABLE on the MS HDMI audio deviceu, my guess is that the actual nVidia HDMI audio device in "Sounds" has NOT actually disappeared even though you have a yellow exclamation mark on the related MS device in "system Controllers".  But I don't know for sure.  This is very important and useful to know, which is why the screenshot from "Sounds" is what I was looking for.

 

Thanks.

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