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JaimeGM
Serial Port
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎06-09-2019
Location: ES
Views: 317
Message 41 of 56

Re: Thinkpad P52 HDMI sound output issues


Disabling the "Automatic standby" does solve the signal issue. That is, monitor not switching back on after long periods of standby. Nothing is detected. No video or audio signal. I've methodicaly tested it. Please refer to my description above.

Is  the signal issue related to the audio issue? I don't know.

I know I've experienced the audio issue far less (only one time in 4 days) since I disabled the feature in the monitor.

But I can't be more specific since I haven't found the way to systematicaly replicate it as I did with the "Automatic standby" feature.

JaimeGM
Serial Port
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎06-09-2019
Location: ES
Views: 286
Message 42 of 56

Re: Thinkpad P52 HDMI sound output issues

There you go.
It happened again.

 

before_2019-06-27 131919.png1- High definition audio driver fail

 

before_2019-06-27 131815.png2-1- Only two devices under audio (Realtek)

 

before_2019-06-27 131833.png2-2- Only two devices under audio (Display audio)

 

after_2019-06-27 132224_after.png3- After enable/Disable device for high definition audio.

 

after_2019-06-27 132025.png4- Now you can see NVIDIA audio.

 

 

 

sikhness
Punch Card
Posts: 12
Registered: ‎05-13-2019
Location: CA
Views: 198
Message 43 of 56

Re: Thinkpad P52 HDMI sound output issues

Has anyone been able to solve this issue?

It's been happening to a lot of us and it's really annoying having to restart the computer everytime it happens.

mbinette
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Posts: 14
Registered: ‎06-24-2019
Location: US
Views: 192
Message 44 of 56

Re: Thinkpad P52 HDMI sound output issues

It hasn't been solved yet but instead of restarting the computer, run "Device Manager", look for the "High Definition Audio Controller" under "System devices" (it might already be shown with a yellow warning icon). Right click and "Disable device" and then right click and "Enable device". It will then fix itself without a reboot. Sounds like a lot of work but it takes less than a minute and is better than having to restart all your running apps.
sikhness
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Posts: 12
Registered: ‎05-13-2019
Location: CA
Views: 190
Message 45 of 56

Re: Thinkpad P52 HDMI sound output issues

Hi mbinette,

Thanks for the quick response. Unfortunately, when the issue occurs for me the "Nvidia High Definition Audio Controller" disappears from the list in Device Manager so I have no choice but to restart the computer.
SeniorGuru
Posts: 2,308
Registered: ‎06-13-2013
Location: US
Views: 186
Message 46 of 56

Re: Thinkpad P52 HDMI sound output issues

This subject has been talked in assorted costumes and flavors and variations, about on multiple forum threads, as we all know. It's affected all models P50/P70, P52/P72, even P1, and W530.  All sorts of nVidia GPU's involved, from K1000m, to M3000M/M4000M, and even P-x series.  Both Intel i5/i7 CPU's and Intel Xeon CPU's.

 

Connections are either directly either with HDMI, miniDP->HDMI or USB-C cables, or connected through a Thunderbolt dock with laptop to dock via USB-C. Sometimes it's a 4K laptop screen, sometimes it's FHD 1080p laptop screen, sometimes its 4K external monitor, sometimes it's FHD 1080p external monitor.

 

Most symptoms described anomalous behavior when the laptop is set to "discrete graphics", but some anomalies occur even when "hybrid graphics" is the operational mode.  Some problems arise when driver installation is done while in "discrete graphics" but seem to go away when driver installation is done while in "hybrid gra;hics" mode.  Some problems do not appear if driver installation is done in "hybrid graphics" mode and then the laptop is switched to "discrete graphics" mode for operational running.  All kinds of combinations and results.

 

In other words, there are the expected wide assortment of laptops and connections and CPUs and GPUs and external monitors/TVs and installation methods involved.  But I believe when we look throught all the threads there are three distinct symptoms, as I see it. Please correct me if I'm wrong, or if I have something incorrectly stated as to the symptom:

 

(1) disappearing HDMI audio from Device Manager, when an external monitor/display/TV supporting HDMI audio is connected, and laptop is running in discrete mode.  This device was present when the driver was installed without the external HDMI monitor connected (either in hybrid or discrete during driver install), but for sure when running discrete and with the external display present there is no nVidia HDMI audio device in Device Manager.

 

(2) similar disappearing HDMI audio from Device Manager when an external monitor/display/TV supporting HDMI audio is connected, but only after the laptop "goes to sleep" (i.e. screen dark/lock) for varying significant lengths of time, from as little as 7 minutes required to as much as overnight (i.e. many hours) required.  When the laptop then comes back from sleep/dark the nVidia HDMI audio device has disappeared from Device Manager.  Shorter periods of sleep/dark do not result in the loss of HDMI audio device, but the actual trigger duration is not really predictable... but it will certainly, on occasion, happen.

 

(3) laptop screen dark and not shown as #1 in nVidia Control Panel and therefore not checkable to activate, when Windows display settings are "show only on 2" (i.e. use external monitor only in your home-office environment, with laptop screen intentionally dark and unused). Unable to get laptop screen to activate and work as #1 in "extended" mode when using Windows display settings to select "extended" or "clone" mode.  This one is a bit vague to me, and may be very much tied to a 4K laptop screen.

 

 

Before carrying on any further discussions and problem reports, I request that ALL PARTICIPANTS please apply the latest BIOS updates and latest DISPLAY DRIVER updates provided by Lenovo for your laptop.  There has very recently (like in the past few weeks to a month) been a wave of updates for BIOS and gra;phics seemingly across all the laptop lines, many of which explictily describe fixes for "discrete graphics" environments.

 

But most importantly, the nVidia graphics driver now being distributed is 425.45 rather than 398.36, which is very significant as it includes a VERY significant driver design change from nVidia, which may well prove to be very singificant factor in how Lenovo Thinkpads now behave.  The "virtual extensible WAVE device (WDM)" mysteriously first produced in Device Manager -> Sounds from nVidia drivers newer than 392.00 now no longer exists again with 425.45 and newer, putting things back the way they were before at 392.00 and older.

 

Furthermore, it appears very important and significant to install the new graphics driver package while operating in hybrid graphics mode.  Please revert your laptop to hybrid graphics for the driver install, even if you then later want to reset your laptop back to discrete graphics for actual normal operation.  And if you do revert to discrete, please double-check verify that the nVidia driver shown in Device Manager for display graphics is actually the 425.45 it is supposed to be per the install whil in hybrid graphics., and not the older original driver version.

 

So, please apply the following CRITICAL display driver updates while in hybrid graphics mode, reverting to discrete after install if you want to.  They all contain nVidia 425.45 for display and are applicable to Win10 release 1803 and later. I performed my own extensive testing using my P70 and for me all issues previously experienced over the past 8 months have now disappeared .  Let's all first get to this latest Lenovo-released CRITICAL display driver level and then see what is still present or has finally been resolved.  And also be sure to get your BIOS updated to latest level as well:

 

(1) P52 - driver N2CNQ19W released June 26

 

(2) P72 - driver N2CNQ19W feleased June 26

 

(3) P70, P50s, T460s, T560 - driver N1CDH82W released June 23

 

(4) P1, X1 Extreme - driver N2EDA22W released July 16

 

 

 Strangely, there doesn't appear to yet be a display driver update for the P50.  It's still back at 398.36, which we all know is defective.

 

mbinette
Fanfold Paper
Posts: 14
Registered: ‎06-24-2019
Location: US
Views: 148
Message 47 of 56

Re: Thinkpad P52 HDMI sound output issues

That is exactly what happens to me as well. Still, disabling "High Definition Audio Controller" and then re-enabling causes the Nvidia High Definition Audio Controller to reappear in Device Manager.
SeniorGuru
Posts: 2,308
Registered: ‎06-13-2013
Location: US
Views: 135
Message 48 of 56

Re: Thinkpad P52 HDMI sound output issues


@mbinette wrote:
It hasn't been solved yet but instead of restarting the computer, run "Device Manager", look for the "High Definition Audio Controller" under "System devices" (it might already be shown with a yellow warning icon). Right click and "Disable device" and then right click and "Enable device". It will then fix itself without a reboot. Sounds like a lot of work but it takes less than a minute and is better than having to restart all your running apps.

Your earlier screenshots shows before and after, but did not show "System Devices" in Device Manager.  They only included "Sounds", and the after set only showed that the nVidia HDMI audio was missing from "Sounds". The fact that "High Definition Audio Controller" is actually also in "System devices" and has a yellow exclamation mark on it and that you can disable/enable it and magically the nVidia HDMI audio will suddenly reappear in "Sounds"... this is information that deserves to be documented with before/after screenshots, both for "System Devices" as well as for "Sounds".

 

Also, you make no mention of whether or not you have actually updated your display drivers as I requested, to the latest N2EDA22W for the P1 containing nVidia driver 425.45 which Lenovo just released only 3 days ago on July 16, as CRITICAL.  Your only screenshots show that your P1 is using 417.35 which Lenovo first released back in January. It is CRUCIAL that you upgrade your display drivers to 425.45, and then re-try your scenario to see if the problem has now been resolved or not by 425.45. Again, N2EDA22W is only 3 days old, but it contains 425.45 for the first time.  We need to see if this latest nVidia driver has any effect (or not) on the set of previously reported issues.

 

Also, your ACER H226HQL monitors... do they have built-in speakers of their own?  Looking at the user manual it appears there is an "audio OUT" connector (which is probably present on your model of the monitor, based on your comments) which appears to be an ordinary analog 3.5mm stereo jack, probably feeding an ordinary set of powered computer speakers.  The onscreen controls for the monitor have a volume +/-, which I'm guessing adjust the output going to the powered speakers (which likely also have their own separate volume control). But if you don't have these external speakers connected, does the monitor itself have built-in speakers of its own?  Or are these externally connected speakers the only way you can get sound... via the HDMI connection from PC through the USB-C connection to the TB3 dock and then HDMI from dock to the two monitors and then analog via 3.5mm stereo cable from one of your two monitors out to the attached external speakers?

 

If the H226HQL monitor does NOT have its own speakers built in, and yet Windows sees HDMI audio usable with it, the monitor must be making the ability to accept digital audio known when the speakers are connected, and perhaps NOT when the speakers are not connected.  It would be interesting to know this fact, in normal operating state (not after coming back from overnight sleep when the Device Manager issue has shown up).  If the speakers are unplugged for the experiment, do you still see HDMI audio in Device Manager?  Or does HDMI audio disappear from Device Manager if you manually disconnect these external speakers from the monitor, which corresponds to the inability to produce sound output since the monitor itself does not contain its own speakers.

 

Or, is HDMI audio still shown in Device Manager even though the speakers are unplugged from the monitor, suggesting that the monitor is hiding this from Windows, and claiming it still can accept HDMI audio even if it has no way of actually producing sound on its own since the speakers are unplugged.

 

I'm only trying to understand this unique configuration, and perhaps the story somehow being tied to the unusual situation with these "quite old" H226HQL monitors connected by HDMI (from 9 years ago, so it's an old HDMI connector) and with external speakers connected by analog output cable.  Maybe it is something in the monitor itself after long periods of non-use (i.e. overnight) that is changing what it tells Windows about its capability, that is causing the disappearance of nVidia HDMI audio in Device Manager after overnight non-use.

 

Again, the configuration is "complex" and with lots of parts: USB-C from P1 to TB3 dock, and then HDMI from dock to monitors, and then analog stereo cable from monitor to speakers.  Firmware and drivers in all devices may be a factor, but it's definitely not a simple straightforward setup.

 

Anyway, have you tried the latest 3-day old Lenovo-provided N2EDA22W display driver to see if it makes any difference at all??  Please do.

 

Also, the P1 shows a new BIOS 1.23 for the P1, contained in package N2EUJ14W and released just a few days ago on July 12. Have you updated your P1 to this level?  Again, please do.

 

We need to keep up with Lenovo's driver/BIOS releases, to see if they "cure" reported problems or not.

mbinette
Fanfold Paper
Posts: 14
Registered: ‎06-24-2019
Location: US
Views: 128
Message 49 of 56

Re: Thinkpad P52 HDMI sound output issues

I upgraded my video drivers (as you suggested) and my BIOS yesterday.

 

My ACER monitor does NOT have built in speaker and DOES have a 3.5mm audio out connector which I connect to a Lenovo self powered speaker. I have two of these monitors and of course only one has a speaker attached. Both monitors show up in my system tray so the monitor itself makes my computer/dock think there is a speaker whether one is connected or not.

 

Since I upgraded video and BIOS I have a new issue and haven't yet seen the original issue. Twice today I woke my system to have only one Acer monitor listed under my Sound selection list from the system tray and it's the monitor that does NOT have a speaker attached. Device Manager looks completely normal with both the NVIDIA High Definition Audio showing up under Sound and High Definition Audio Controller under System Devices with no error or warning icon on it.

 

As usual, I disable the High Definition Audio Controller and that causes the NVIDIA High Definition Audio to also disappear. Then I re-enable. NVIDIA High Definition Audio comes back and so do both my monitors in the speaker list. I haven't tried disabling the NVIDIA High Definition Audio when this occurs but will next time it happens.

 

If the original problem occurs at some point I will take screen shots of Device Manager before and after.

SeniorGuru
Posts: 2,308
Registered: ‎06-13-2013
Location: US
Views: 120
Message 50 of 56

Re: Thinkpad P52 HDMI sound output issues

I've now investigated things in my own P70.  At this moment no external monitor is connected. I am running purely with laptop analog Realtek HD Audio speakers.  So what is shown here is the way things are normally, even if no external HDMI-capable monitor is involved.

 

Also note that in "Sounds" there is the "nVidia  high definition audio" device which corresponds to the Playback Devices list (i.e. system tray -> Sound -> playback tab choices), and it is currently "not connected".

 

Turns out there are TWO "High Definition Audio Controller" items in Device Manager "System devices". Looking at the two Hardware IDs it turns out these are:

 

(a) PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_A170 - this is the "Intel 100 Series/C230 Series Chipset Family HD Audio Controller"

(b) PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_0FBB - this is the " nVidia GM204 High Definition Audio Controller"

 

HDMI_Audio-controllers.jpg

And as you describe, it would appear that the "System devices" nVidia high definition audio controller item is the "master device" handling the nVidia high definition audio device in "Sounds".  Because when I DISABLE the nVidia device in "System Devices", sure enough the related nVidia high definition audio device in "Sounds" actually disappears. And then when I ENABLE the nVidia device in "System devices", sure enough the related nVidia high definition audio device in "Sounds" absolutely reappears.

 

I didn't have a yellow exclamation mark on my own "System Devices" item for nVidia high definition audio controller, but I certainly demonstrated that ENABLE on the nVidia item in "System Devices" will apparently "bring back" a disappeared nVidia high definition audio device in "Sounds", at least in the experiment I just ran (where there was no yellow exclamation mark, and no naturally-occurring loss of the nVidia "Sounds" device).

 

My thoughts here are that you've uncovered a relationship between the "master controller" driver in "System devices" and the "item device" driver in "Sounds", and an apparent workaround for being able to reinstate a previously disappeared "item nVidia device" in "sounds" using this [DISABLE]/ENABLE technique rather than going through an entire re-boot process.  It's a good trick to know, but doesn't really explain what's actually happening that caused the "Sounds" device to disappear in the first place after returning from long periods of laptop sleep.

 

Out of curioisity, for purposes of experimenting, if you disable SLEEP (i.e. set it to "never"), do you NEVER LOSE YOUR HDMI AUDIO DEVICE? If the laptop is plugged into wall power and not running on battery, presumably there's really no battery lifetime reason to officially go to "sleep". You could just leave it always on, and set all the screen(s) to go dark (i.e. power-save mode for the screens).  Then just jiggle the mouse to come back the next morning to wake all the screens up, with the laptop itself already having always been "awake" throughout the night.  And when you now "come back to screen life", is HDMI audio STILL PRESENT?

 

If everything is still "normal" this would simply prove that the issue is entirely related to "formal SLEEP".  And now it's unclear whether it's due to the laptop sleeping, or laptop sleep somehow affecting the USB-C connection to TB3 dock and then what the dock does with respect to talking to the attached monitors and in particular how does it affect that monitor with the attached speakers? We still don't know what actually is responsible for the disappearing HDMI audio device in "Sounds" after coming back from long periods of "official SLEEP".

 

You said that after updating display driver and BIOS "haven't yet seen the original issue", but that you now have a slightly different issue where one of your two speakers (both previously shown in system tray Playback Devices choice list) is disappearing, but not both.  And the one that disappears is the one with the speakers connected.  Are you saying that previously, they BOTH disappeared?  Or that NEITHER disappeared? If the nVidia HDMI audio device disappeared from "Sounds", what was the corresponding offering in Playback Devices... both before updating driver/BIOS and after?  Please clarify.

 

Also (and this is a bit more of an extreme experiment for the purpose of gathering useful forensic diagnostic information) would it be possible for you to temporarily reconfigure things to run just one of your two external monitors (namely the one with the speakers connected to it), removing the TB3 dock from the equation?  Can you connect the monitor directly to the P1 via HDMI, all else remaining the same (i.e. leave "formal sleep" still in effect, for overnight sleeping)?  And now see what happens. Does HDMI audio device once again disappear from "Sounds" when the laptop comes back from overnight sleep the next morning?  Or does HDMI audio device no longer disappear from "Sounds"?  If there's different behavior with or without the TB3 dock involved, that seems to be very useful diagnostic information to know.

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