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Mr_Natural
Fanfold Paper
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Registered: ‎12-11-2018
Location: US
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Message 21 of 39

Re: Thinkpad P52 / p72 with 128GB RAM

I have commented about this several times on this forum, but no one seems to know with 100% certainty. But having done a lot of research on this, I haven't found anyone online who claims to have successfully upgraded past 64gb (after purchase). What it looks like is that Intel has some info, possibly just specs, in the memory controller which limits it to 64gb. Evidently Lenovo has discovered that if you change this info in the controller then it will actually work with more than 64gb, so they do this at the factory if you initially order more than that. But unless you know how to do this yourself and exactly what info to actually change, then after your initial purchase you will be limited to 64gb. That's my understanding but it's difficult to be absolutely sure because nobody at Lenovo seems to want to talk about this. Perhaps in time someone will figure out how to change the controllers and people will be able to do it themselves. But until then if you try to go past 64gb yourself, don't be surprised if it doesn't work.

chukwe
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Message 22 of 39

Re: Thinkpad P52 / p72 with 128GB RAM

Why will someone need 128GB RAM? Is it not overkill?

tinatan
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Location: BZ
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Message 23 of 39

Re: Thinkpad P52 / p72 with 128GB RAM

I am a system engineer and i need to run VSphere and Hyper on my laptop when i travel. 64GB can do most of the simple test with Linux but once we load windows guest, 64GB is not enough.

gemini132
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Message 24 of 39

Re: Thinkpad P52 / p72 with 128GB RAM

The thing is Lenovo support never give a straight answers to users on this forums about technical questions, perhaps because they expect people will buy the RAM from them but the prices they sell these new RAM modules are just crazy, I know this type of RAM is new and prices in general with RAM tend always to be high but they should realize that most users will prefer to out-source some of these parts from somewhere else.

 

Like it has been mentioned by some users on this forum in order to allow 128GB to work with the new P52 model it seems they modify in some way the memory controller but only if RAM is bought from them, however this should not be like this regardless users buy or not (RAM) from Lenovo these machines should come already fit to accept 128GB even if users only buy 8, 16, 32 or 64GB.

 

I'm now surprise of this approach taken by Lenovo on this case with the RAM (allow 128GB) on the new P52, I remember when the P51 was release there were lots of complaints from users of why units that were bought from Lenovo with 2 SSD - RAID 0 configuration this was done only in the factory, but after many complaints on this part from the users Lenovo decided to enable this permanently with a BIOS update.

 

Perhaps this in the near future will be case with the RAM, and Lenovo will release as well with a BIOS update to allow configurations of 128GB RAM not only on the latest P52 but also on previous models like the P51 which also has 4 four module slots.

 

For those who may not be aware there is a company in the UK called flexxmemory who currently sells the 32GB modules:

The SKU for this part is M471A4G43MB1-CTD

 

They sell these modules in a KIT, although the price is a bit high as expected with this type of ram and stock levels on their website are good at the moment.

The SKU for this part is M471A4G43MB1-CTDx2

 

 

I thought it was worth mention it.

 

brendanhoar
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Location: US
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Message 25 of 39

Re: Thinkpad P52 / p72 with 128GB RAM

Just one data point, may or may not have bearing on this discussion, but I thought I would share:

 

I transferred two 32GB sticks from a P52 shipped w/ 128GB to a P1 shipped w/ 16GB RAM, and moved the now lonely 16GB stick back into the P52.

 

So now the two are configed as P52 w/ 80GB and P1 w/ 64GB, both working properly.

 

Brendan 

Community SeniorMod
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Message 26 of 39

Re: Thinkpad P52 / p72 with 128GB RAM

The two 32GB DIMMs working in the P1 wouldn't be a surprise.  The question was whether or not the chipset would support more than 64GB


Rich


I do not respond to requests for private, one-on-one help. Your questions should be posted in the appropriate forum where they may help others as well.

If a response answers your question, please mark it as the accepted solution.

I am not an employee or agent of Lenovo.
gemini132
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Message 27 of 39

Re: Thinkpad P52 / p72 with 128GB RAM

Thanks for sharing these findings Brendan, as for Rich's question is a valid point whether even though if 128GB are seen by the OS which we know it is, but the current limitations by even the latest CPU that according to the specs shows only a maximum of 64GB support by the CPU.

 

However in this part I saw at the end of last year an article where Intel says the upcoming 9th generation cpu will support a maximum of 128GB of DDR4 but on desktop ones, although this should be extended to mobile cpu.

 

This is the original text from this article:

 

Intel to Support 128GB of DDR4 on Core 9th Gen Desktop Processors:
 

One of today’s announcements threw up an interesting footnote worthy of further investigation. With its latest products, HP announced that their mainstream desktop platforms would be shipped with up to 32GB of memory, which was further expandable up to 128GB. Intel has confirmed to us, based on new memory entering the market, that there will be an adjustment to the memory support of the latest processors.

 

State of Play

Normally mainstream processors only support 64GB, by virtue of two memory channels, two DIMMs per memory channel (2DPC), and the maximum size of a standard consumer UDIMM being 16GB of DDR4, meaning 4x16GB = 64GB. However the launch of two different technologies, both double height double capacity 32GB DDR4 modules from Zadak and G.Skill, as well as new 16Gb DDR4 chips coming from Samsung, means that technically in a consumer system with four memory slots, up to 128GB might be possible.

 

With AMD, the company has previously stated that its memory controller can support future memory that comes to market (with qualification), however Intel has been steadfast in limiting its memory support on its chips specifically within the specification. HP is now pre-empting the change it its latest launch with the following footnote:

This has forced Intel into a statement, which reads as the following:

The new 9th Gen Intel Core processors memory controller is capable of supporting DDR4 16Gb die density DIMMs which will allow the processors to support a total system memory capacity of up to 128GB when populating both motherboard memory channels with 2 DIMMs per Channel (2DPC) using these DIMMs.  As DDR4 16Gb die density DIMMs have only recently become available, we are now validating them, targeting an update in a few months’ time.

At present Intel is only talking about the new Core 9th Gen processors that are set to hit the market on October 19th, which are the Core i9-9900K, the Core i7-9700K, and the Core i5-9600K. There has been no statement on previous generations of processors that support DDR4, or if there is any change on the high-end desktop platform for 256GB support.

 

So this Intel statement shows they will enable up to 128GB ram on newest cpu but Intel says that with an update this would be possible, we'll have to wait and see if this update they're talking about is like a Bios update of some sort and also if Intel decides to extend it to previous generation of cpu.

 

C. 

gemini132
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Message 28 of 39

Re: Thinkpad P52 / p72 with 128GB RAM

Ok, so I got into the task of test this myself by buying 2 of the Samsung 32GB DDR4 SODIMM 2666 MHz Laptop Memory Module/Stick, but before buying them I enquired in one of the retailers that have good stock levels on those modules to see if these modules would be compatible with the Lenovo ThinkPad P51, unfortunately retailers (support team) don't have any clue on this type of enquiries and they told me that those modules won't be compatible with the P51.

 

But nevertheless, I decided to do the test myself and bought two (initially I wanted to buy 4), and after I received them today once installed I can confirm that these new Samsung modules are compatible and working excellent on the P51, now before I installed the modules I had 8GB module on the laptop so I thought when installed the 2x32GB I should be able to use 72GB physically installed but on the BIOS settings page after turning on the laptop was showing only 64GB the interest part on this once I logged in to the desktop I checked what RAM was showing as available on the OS through Windows 10 and it says 72GB (63.8 GB usable), also in the task manager says the same information but the 8GB which should be available for use shows as "Hardware reserved".

 

This test clarifies any doubts of those modules being compatible in other systems like the P51, however the usable RAM is only up to 64GB (which according to the spec sheet on the P51 its max. is 64GB), even though the memory controller in new recent CPU's is now on the CPU itself in order to have the P51, P71 to be able to use more than 64GB (up to 128GB) with the new Samsung modules it seems clear that a BIOS update will be needed for those ThinkPad models.

 

I hope that Lenovo consider in the near future to do this by enabling the use of 128GB through the BIOS by lifting this current limitation, same process they did with the RAID 0, 1 setting when the P51 and P71 were launched initially.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Community SeniorMod
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Message 29 of 39

Re: Thinkpad P52 / p72 with 128GB RAM

Regarding the previous post on the P51, I am not sure how a BIOS update would help.  The limitation seems to be in the CPU and chipset.


Rich


I do not respond to requests for private, one-on-one help. Your questions should be posted in the appropriate forum where they may help others as well.

If a response answers your question, please mark it as the accepted solution.

I am not an employee or agent of Lenovo.
gemini132
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Posts: 52
Registered: ‎05-11-2016
Location: GB
Views: 1,177
Message 30 of 39

Re: Thinkpad P52 / p72 with 128GB RAM

I believe this limitation is not on the CPU itself or even the chipset, with the new coffee lake CPU launched by Intel last year even though those ones the maximum RAM they support is 64GB, and after looking the notes (readme document) of the P52 Bios

 

<1.10>
 UEFI: 1.10 / ECP: 1.09
- (New) Added support of ThinkPad P72 (Machine types: 20MB, 20MC)
- (New) Updated the Video BIOS and the GOP driver.
- (New) Updated the CPU microcode.
- (New) Support Dolby Vision function on UHD panel.
- (New) Updated E-Labeling module to version 2.02.1.3.
- (New) Support TPM firmware Update by utility.
- (New) Updated the Diagnostics module to version 04.00.001.
- (Fix) Fixed an issue where BIOS POST might display the error message ""1802: Unauthorized network card is plugged in - Power off and remove the network card (8086/7360/0000/0000).""
- (Fix) Fixed an issue where system can't connect by Serial Over LAN function.
- (Fix) Fixed memory capacity show incorrect when attached 64GB above memory.
- (Fix) Fixed an issue where BIOS POST might display the error message ""Boot Manager recover from an error.""
- (Fix) Fixed an intermittent issue that Thunderbolt doesn't work when resume from sleep state.
- (Fix) Fixed an issue where audio function might not work as expected.

You can see that on the release of version 1.10 they fixed an issue with the memory capacity showing incorrect when attached 64GB above, obviously this change is related to the P52, but with this in mind lenovo could do the same on the P51 and apply the same fix. 

 

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