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194 Posts

04-27-2009

Canada

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W530 Power Adapters, 90W vs 135W Vs 170W

2012-08-23, 19:25 PM

I Just got my W530 3720QM K2000m and i find it ridiculous that it cant use the 90W Adapter when idle and uses the battery. I Read threads of similar things with the W520, as well as some on the W510, and it appears that this used to work on the W510, 90W power adapter delivered the system in working condition with reduced performance.

 

Now, i use my laptop as both a worstation and an entertainment laptop. if i were to go on a flight or be in a car, i sure wont be doing intensive VMware or 3d stuff, so 90W would be more than sufficient to drive the laptop as well as charge the laptop. i even have a Killawatt meter, i plugged in the 170W Adapter into it, and then ran my laptop while having the battery charged. the max power consumption that it pulled was 70W At the wall, surfing the web in optimus mode.

 

Why cant we have a power saver mode to allow usage of the 90W adapter? or at least have the Choice between "battery only" - reduced performance anyways and "reduced performance AC/only"? At the very least it would avoid draining the battery for absolutely no good reason. My system idles at under 30watts anyways and that would leave 60W to do anything else, for example charging the battery at 40W - to give the total of 70W at the wall, from the 170W Brick.

 

i Wish to see a revised bios to correct this or at least allow this. i dont believe its impossible or too complex to code. it was done on the W510, i dont see why it cant be done on newer, improved, smarter, more power controlled, 22nm ivy bridge based systems.

 

and yes, if i wanted to use the full power of my machine i would have the 170W adapter, however, i currently own a T60, T61, T400 and now just added a W530, so i already have two docks + 4 90W adapters, + a 90W AC/DC Travel adapter. having to purchase another 170W adapter is kinda ridiculous, not to mention that its not compatible with any of my three other machines due to the fact that it is keyed.

 

Please make a bios revision to address this issue. Thanks.

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9 Posts

02-18-2011

USA

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Re: W530 Power Adapters, 90W vs 135W Vs 170W

2012-08-23, 19:50 PM

This topic has been discussed in this thread:  and this thread

 

I have not seen a satisfactory reason why the notebook cannot operate from 90W in a reduced performance mode.  The conditions that cause a 135W power draw are rare. For light use my W520 draws 15-20 watts. As a thought experiment, consider what would happen if you had a 90W adapter attached, and suddenly the notebook tried to draw 135W.  The adapter would shut down due to over-current. This is exactly the same scenario that would occur if I unplugged the adapter while operating. The notebook is designed to instantly switch over to battery if the AC power goes away. So there is no risk to the computer. Maybe if the adapter is poorly designed, it could be damaged.

 

I challenge Lenovo to provide a technical reason why the W520 and W530 cannot operate off a 90W supply in a reduced performance mode.  I believe a good portion of the 135W is for charging the battery. So if the power drain exceeds 90W, stop charging the battery. 90W should be more than enough to operate the notebook only under any circumstance. Under most circumstances, it can operate the computer and charge the battery.

 

 This thread describes mods that will trick the notebook into thinking it has a different capacity power supply.

 

 

 

 

 

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194 Posts

04-27-2009

Canada

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Re: W530 Power Adapters, 90W vs 135W Vs 170W

2012-08-25, 5:18 AM

i just tested power draw of my laptop and under turbo boost, integrated graphics only, the laptop only draws 80 watts at the wall. there is no reason for it to not run on 90W adapter without discharging the battery, in fact, there is a 10W balance to charge the battery.

 

The most i made this laptop consume was 151W under full OCCT Load, with lenovo turbo boost enabled, Throtlestop forcing even higher turbo, and loading both quad core and k2000m to the limit using OCCT PSU Test, and testing all cores including logical cores, for only 30 seconds, after which the second level turbo boost drops off after the cpu has heated up and the system draws only 130W at the wall after that.

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194 Posts

04-27-2009

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Re: W530 Power Adapters, 90W vs 135W Vs 170W

2012-08-27, 0:11 AM

given my tests were done on a W530, i shall post my results here.

Bottom line: Lenovo power manager has no freaking clue as to how much power the system actually uses when its plugged into the wall. it cant even do basic arithmetic.

 

In any case, these are my findings. on the W530, with a i7 3720 QM, 32gb of 1600mhz ram, K2000m, these are my results on power consumption.

These tests were done to see if there was a logical explanation for not allowing the use of a 90W adapter at all on such a machine. bottom line is, if throtled, there is no reason not to. limiting the use to intel gpu only and not allowing turbo boost, effectively eliminates ANY possibility of using more than 90W when not charging the battery. The proof: The last two lines of this table. 60W Max power consumption at the wall under OCCT PSU Test when the cpu is limited to 2.6ghz, and the battery is removed/not charging. PSU Test stresses both cpu and gpu simultaneously.

 

The first battery of tests were to find out what tests should and shouldnt be performed, and what numbers were accurate. it was clear that power manager had no idea how to do basic math and later tests did not include it's random numbers. it only properly aproximates power consumption when on battery, not when on AC.

 

It was also concluded that using OCCT:CPU Resulted in the same power draw as CPU: Linpack, and thus OCCT CPU Was used to expedite number crunching.

 

Without futrher ado, here are the results:

 

Maximum power draw AC No Battery 170W Adapter  
Quad core hyperthread Bluetooth Wifi   
     
OptimusKillawattPower managerCpu power Throtlestop (W)Cpu speed (GHz)
Idle32-36165.61.4
Linpack stock7334302.6
Linpack Lenovo Turbo733330.32.6
Linpack Throtlestop turbo10448503.4
OCCT Turbo boost/stock7533272.6
High Performance Profile   
OCCT Turbo boost/stock904142.63.4
High Performance Profile Max Brightness, keyboard backlit  
OCCT Throtlestop1054842.53.4
High Performance Profile lowest Brightness, keyboard off  
OCCT Throtlestop803742.83.4
High Performance Profile Max Brightness, keyboard backlit  
OCCT PSU TEST1035253.93.3
     
K2000mKillawatt (W)Cpu power Throtlestop (W)Cpu speed (GHz) 
Idle294.80.8 
OCCT CPU9042.43.4 
PSU TEST11036.43.4 
     
4000HDKillawatt (W)Cpu power Throtlestop (W)Cpu speed (GHz) 
Idle205.12.2 
OCCT CPU8741.83.4 
PSU TEST9453.13.3 
     
4000HD, CPU Limited to Stock 2.6ghz  
 Killawatt (W)Cpu power Throtlestop (W)Cpu speed (GHz) 
PSU TEST6029.52.6 
OCCT CPU5826.42.6 
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3 Posts

12-15-2012

Vancouver, Canada

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Re: W530 Power Adapters, 90W vs 135W Vs 170W

2012-12-15, 7:44 AM

This has been an interesting thread.  I would like to add a new wrinkle to the discussion.

 

I have just purchased the following suite of equipment:

 

 (1)  ThinkPad W530 laptop (model #24384CU);  (2)  ThinkPad Minidock+ (model #433815U).

 

With the W530 came a power adapter rated at 170W in & 20V/8.5A out.  With the Minidock came one rated at 90W in & 20V/4.5A out.

 

Why is the adapter with the W530 bigger than the one with the Minidock?  Wouldn't the machine need more power when connected to the dock, when presumably it would have more peripherals connected with it?

 

Is it okay for me to swap them, i.e., use the 170W adapter with the Minidock and the 90W one when travelling with the W530?  (This forum has already discussed issues with using the 90W unit, but I am interested in knowing if it is okay to use the 170W one with the dock.)

 

Thanks.

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20986 Posts

12-20-2008

Australia, Melbourne

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Re: W530 Power Adapters, 90W vs 135W Vs 170W

2012-12-15, 9:36 AM
there are two types of Series 3 Minidock workstation, there is the 90 watts version and the 170 watts adapter version.

Your W530 won't work properly in the 90 watts adapter version. the plug head for the 170 watts adapter is different to the 65 watts/90watts/135 watts version.
Regards,

Jin Li

May this year, be the year of 'DO'!

I am a volunteer, and not a paid staff of Lenovo or Microsoft
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3 Posts

12-15-2012

Vancouver, Canada

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Re: W530 Power Adapters, 90W vs 135W Vs 170W

2012-12-15, 17:35 PM

Very interesting.  I indeed notice the different plug heads.  However, as we speak, I have been running the W530 in the dock with the 170W adapter plugged into it.  I wonder if this means that I possess the 170W version of the dock but that it came with a 90W adapter (which I have not used so far).

 

Cheers.

 

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20986 Posts

12-20-2008

Australia, Melbourne

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Re: W530 Power Adapters, 90W vs 135W Vs 170W

2012-12-16, 0:14 AM
the adapter head for the ThinkPad 170 watts and 90 watts are different, maybe they have packaged the wrong adapter with your dock?
Regards,

Jin Li

May this year, be the year of 'DO'!

I am a volunteer, and not a paid staff of Lenovo or Microsoft
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194 Posts

04-27-2009

Canada

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Re: W530 Power Adapters, 90W vs 135W Vs 170W

2012-12-16, 0:46 AM

The 170W plug head can not fit into round plug dc jacks, so i dont understand what you are saying?!?!?!?!

 

also, the 90W adapter can not charge the W530 when you are using it, or atleast, not the quad core W530
. if you have a dual core edition, i do not know how those react, but my W530 i7 3720QM With K2000m and 32gb ram can not be used with a 90W adapter. it runs on battery only.

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2430 Posts

04-08-2011

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Re: W530 Power Adapters, 90W vs 135W Vs 170W

2012-12-16, 7:46 AM

I have not done any testing for proof, but my understanding was that the 170W came from the total power draw when using all of the possible ports, drive bays, and devices under full load.

 

 

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3 Posts

12-15-2012

Vancouver, Canada

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Re: W530 Power Adapters, 90W vs 135W Vs 170W

2012-12-16, 7:51 AM

Answering DragonFly's question, my docking station accepts the special plug on the 170W power adapter, even though a 90W adapter was provided in the package.

 

Cheers.    /David.

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1 Posts

12-18-2012

Irvine, CA

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Re: W530 Power Adapters, 90W vs 135W Vs 170W

2012-12-18, 4:10 AM

I also just purchased a MiniDock Plus Series 3 (4338-15U) and it came with a 90W power supply. I plugged that gigantic 170W adapter into the MiniDock and it works fine. what are we missing here?

 

Still trying to interpret what is being said in this thread. We only use the W530 for Office, the occassional VIsio project and viewing PDFs. Can I just travel with my 90w adapter or do I have to lug that 170W adapter around? I'd rather keep the 170W on my dock when I'm home and use the 90W while on travel. I travel about 4 days a week. 

 

Will I be ok with the 90W during travel?

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194 Posts

04-27-2009

Canada

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Re: W530 Power Adapters, 90W vs 135W Vs 170W

2012-12-18, 6:22 AM

do this test and please post your system specs too:

 

plug in 90W adapter into your laptop, open power manager, set to advanced mode and go to battery. what does it say?

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539 Posts

07-09-2009

USA

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Re: W530 Power Adapters, 90W vs 135W Vs 170W

2012-12-18, 16:50 PM

w520-90w-power-extension-cable.jpg

 

Hi Dragon-Fly,

 

I am using my W520 (Quad-Core) with the 90W power suply.

 

The ground connector in the extension cable which you made for me (photo above) makes the W520 think it is dealing with a 135W adapter.

 

 (Power Manager says: 135W AC adapter is attached :)

 

 

 

 

 

_______________________________________________________________________
W520 4270CTO i7-2820QM Quadro2000M 1920x1080 Display 16GB RAM 2x240GB Intel 510 SSDs (RAID 0) - BIOS 1.42 - PCMark7:4,568
Samsung Series 9 15-inch NP900X4C-A03US - PCMark7: 4674
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194 Posts

04-27-2009

Canada

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Re: W530 Power Adapters, 90W vs 135W Vs 170W

2012-12-18, 16:53 PM

Nice! I`m glad you got it and that its working for you! :) i ordered myself another harness so that i can modify another 20V 180W power adapter to "Fake" lenovo adapter, just got the cable yesterday and i'll see if i can make something fancy like a Fake 170W adapter. :P

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539 Posts

07-09-2009

USA

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Re: W530 Power Adapters, 90W vs 135W Vs 170W

2013-01-13, 19:03 PM

The Beauty and the Beast:

 

lenovo-90w-vs-180w-adapter2.jpg

Yeah.

 

Works great on my W520. No issues. No throttling. And the 90 W Power Supply does not even get hot.

 

The 90W adapter weighs 0.5lbs, the 170W weighs 1.33lbs

 

Thanks DragonFly - you did a great job making that cable for me.

 

_______________________________________________________________________
W520 4270CTO i7-2820QM Quadro2000M 1920x1080 Display 16GB RAM 2x240GB Intel 510 SSDs (RAID 0) - BIOS 1.42 - PCMark7:4,568
Samsung Series 9 15-inch NP900X4C-A03US - PCMark7: 4674
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27 Posts

10-18-2008

Palo Alto, CA

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Re: W530 Power Adapters, 90W vs 135W Vs 170W

2013-01-14, 19:20 PM

Wow. If the 90 works, I have a few of those :) Where can I get a cable.? And if it is an adapter cable, shorter the better.

 

Thanks.

 

~Bob

 

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194 Posts

04-27-2009

Canada

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Re: W530 Power Adapters, 90W vs 135W Vs 170W

2013-01-14, 23:32 PM

im really happy the cable got to you and is working nicely :)

I had to build the cable, you cant find that adapter cable anywhere unfortunately.

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27 Posts

10-18-2008

Palo Alto, CA

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Re: W530 Power Adapters, 90W vs 135W Vs 170W

2013-01-15, 3:58 AM

Maybe you have a little business opportunity here.

 

~Bob

 

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4 Posts

01-30-2013

Austin Texas

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Re: W530 Power Adapters, 90W vs 135W Vs 170W

2013-01-30, 12:57 PM

I recently received a W530 and discovered that all my adaptors are "obsolete". I've browsed a number of these threads on the topic and would be very interested in an adapter cable (if available). Any further details on how to create a DIY version (in particular, where can you buy the compatible tips required) are much appreciated.

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4 Posts

01-30-2013

Austin Texas

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Re: W530 Power Adapters, 90W vs 135W Vs 170W

2013-02-08, 21:49 PM

Just wanted to say thanks to DragonFly for pointing me to the item that makes building an adapter cable pretty straightforward: this 3 wire cable. Very easy to connect the signal pin to ground this way, I had no luck disassembling the plugs themselves. My W530 is running and charging on a 90 watt supply right now. THANKS!

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Power-Cord-Plug-Tip-for-Lenovo-Z60m-Z60t-AC-adaptor-/160962641697?pt=Laptop_Adapters_Chargers&hash=item257a1eff21

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