When do we finally get a good screen? (P50 4K) [ Edited ]

[Puppy]

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tk-don wrote:

On paper, Sharp displays are still the best. How on earth the panel in reality could be of a so pathetic quality/grade is the question. Another company that rhymes with "hell" do not appear to be affected in this way at all.

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The LED backlight low quality compared to CCFL in general together with unnecessary display thinness is the cause. And cutting costs, of course. I guess the same panel unmounted from the lid just lying on a desk without any small pressure applied wouldn't have such excessive backlight bleeding.

The most frustrating is that the issue is recurring for last several years over and over but Lenovo does not care even in a $4000 workstation

[tk-don]

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Puppy wrote

The LED backlight low quality compared to CCFL in general together with unnecessary display thinness is the cause. And cutting costs, of course. I guess the same panel unmounted from the lid just lying on a desk without any small pressure applied wouldn't have such excessive backlight bleeding.

The most frustrating is that the issue is recurring for last several years over and over but Lenovo does not care even in a $4000 workstation

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I agree. It wasn't until I studied the specs of recent panels that it occured to me they don't even have a metal frame nowadays. So by twisting the laptop panel sligthly by the upper edges would now crack the panel? Or don't they use glass subtrates any longer? How robust are lids nowadays across laptop brands?

Silvenga-nq, do you by any chance have a link to the Reddit post with a good 4K panel image? Just curious of how it would look, and it gives other people a "benchmark" for seeing what is good and what is unacceptable.

[flycoop]

Since  the "Lenovo, good displays exit" thread was moved to a different forum, I wanted to re-post the last post to that thread on this forum.

"I think the P50 would be a great machine for photo editing for all the same reasons other business users would be interested in it (cool, quiet, well made chassis, powerful, good battery run times, hopefully durable, etc.). The 4K display looks great on paper and would be fine (on paper) for photo editing. However, posts on this forum suggest the quality of the actual delivered P50 4K display seems to be inconsistent and has disappointed many buyers. (BTW, photo editing would not require a 4K display - only a high quality display with very good color coverage.)

Hopefully there are P50 4K displays out there with no defects but that is not clear to me at this time. A post on another forum suggested that buyers keep returning machines until they receive a decent display. I would love to have one of those machines.

To the folks at Lenovo (Amy seems to be listening), is it possible to address the quality issues with the P50 4K display?"

Thanks.

Flycoop

[tk-don]

So, I received my P50 with 4K display two days ago. Here's a image of a fully white background. I am trying not not over-expose the image, i.e. you should still be able to see the mouse cursor in the middle of the screen. Bad phone camera, I know.

Otherwise little backlight leakage - only IPS glow for all four corners. But you'll get that from all displays these days.

http://s12.postimg.org/kl4dj4k31/WP_20160311_016.jpg

The ONLY thing I find highly annoying at the moment is that when I move my head closer to the screen - like 1 ft away, the rightmost part of the screen becomes darker than the left. When I move my head horisontally a few inches to the right, the rightmost part has got the same light intensity as the left part.

On a test site like notebookcheck.com, the display would pass with flying colors as when using a colorimeter to measure light intensity at different locations, it would look perfect since it it always measured perpendicularly.

This display reminds me a lot about modern glass-fused phone displays. It is like the brightness drops off quickly after 20 degrees, but stays at constant luminosity until 180 degrees.

My display model number is LQ156D1JW05 with manufacturer date week 36/2015. This was retrieved by AIDA64. Anyone else got newer displays?

[Puppy]

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This display reminds me a lot about modern glass-fused phone displays. It is like the brightness drops off quickly after 20 degrees, but stays at constant luminosity until 180 degrees.

That's cutting cost trick to improve brightness (and cd/m2 numbers in reviews) in direct view in favor of brightness stability under different viewing angle. As you probably noticed, older (better IPS) displays does not have such issue. Crappy LED backlight technology also contributes to it.

As for IPS glow there is also solution, it is called A-TW polarizer. My old NEC 2090UXi monitor has such screen. If it was possible 9 years ago it must be possible now, but as usually, the cutting costs disease is there again.

No, such display is not acceptable in a $3000 laptop.

[archon810]

Just got my refund on the P50. The poor screen with shadowing was the deciding factor in the end (otherwise I would have probably re-ordered a modified config).

[Puppy]

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archon810 wrote:

Just got my refund on the P50. The poor screen with shadowing was the deciding factor in the end (otherwise I would have probably re-ordered a modified config).

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The most frustrating is that even half of customers would do the same Lenovo still won't take any action to improve it.

[tk-don]

Ok, here goes, for those interested:

White luminance is mimimum around 265 cd/m2 at max brightness. The brightest locations of the display measures 270 cd/m2. That's right. I can't detect the viewing angle dependency using my DTP94.

The black level is 0.24 cd/m2, yielding a CR of about 1100:1. This display has not been calibrated. It seems to be what to expect from these displays.

One day, I might replace the display with a LQ156D1JW04 sRGB display if it can be tested by the seller beforehand. If that display is noticeably better, but I somehow highly doubt it.

[tk-don]

I have had my P50 for about two weeks now, and I can tell you that the limited viewing angles are driving me endlessly nuts by now - especially on white backgrounds. It's torture. I'm going to complain to IBM/Lenovo support next week, demanding a screen replacement - it is useless for photo work as the gamma is too instable, since it is so viewing angle dependent. I've been using a D630 Dell for a backup machine, with an otherwise low-contrast, low-gamut TN display. But the viewing angles it had regarding brightness stability is much better than the 4K Sharp c*** I have in my P50.

I'd really appreciate if as many people as possible can tell me their impressions along with the build date of their Sharp LCD. This can for example be retrieved using Aida64: ( just try the extreme trial version from http://www.aida64.com/downloads ) then Select Display->Monitor and read the manufacture date.

With this I hope to identify potential bad LCD batches. Thank you for any data, it is much appreciated.

For those with 4K screens that are SATISFIED with their displays - I know you are out there: Don't you notice brightness shifts on a white screen image when moving your head from side to side approx a feet away from the display? Don't you notice the rightmost part of the screen to be less bright when your head is centered in front of the laptop approx 1 feet away from the screen? If not, I'm extremely eager to get to know the build date of your LCD.

[flycoop]

Tk-don, thanks for you your report & analyis. It was very helpful.

I think you've asked the million dollar question, are there P50 4K displays out there which are free from problems?

It seems, as previously noted on this forum, that other manufacturers are also having problems with 4K Sharp displays (and maybe other 4K displays as well). Except for the display problems, the P50 seems like a pretty nice machine for photo editing. (For what it's worth, the only reason I am interested in the 4K display is the good color coverage - I don't really need 4K otherwise.)

I am wondering how to systematically evaluate a new laptop display to discern any problems - right out of the box. I've googled this but have found little usefull info. As I'm fond of bragging, I'm a computer idiot.

Thanks.

Coop