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Manotee
Blue Screen Again
Posts: 44
Registered: ‎05-01-2015
Location: US
Views: 1,856
Message 11 of 91

Re: STILL NOT FIXED!!!

Although the Lenovo sales website identified my Yoga as a ThinkPad Yoga 12 (1st gen) when I ordered it, it is not really a ThinkPad Yoga 12. It is either a 12" ThinkPad Yoga or a ThinkPad S1 Yoga. It seems the ThinkPad Yoga 12 identifies the new 2nd gen ThinkPad Yoga 12.

 

Regardless of the true system name, the 12" ThinkPad Yoga I have seems to have a design flaw in the trackpad (this is how the "touchpad" is identified in the User Guide). The User Guide goes into great detail as to when the trackpad is enabled or disabled depending on the laptop, stand, tent, tablet modes, but "Dock" mode is not listed. There is a brief mention of settings for the trackpad, but I can't find any description of how to manually disable the trackpad when in Dock mode.

 

The 12" ThinkPad S1 Yoga was obviously intended to operate in Dock mode, as it has the OneLink Dock port and the OneLink Docks are shown in the accessories tab at order entry. The only way to effectively use the ThinkPad S1 Yoga in Dock mode is to place a sheet of aluminum foil between the keyboard and screen. This will circumvent the electrical interference that is causing random cursor movement and clicks.

 

I now realize I made a serious mistake when replacing my rapidly failing laptop. I knew the new Yoga 12 was in the pipeline, and liked the look of the new trackpad design But I knew I would not be using the trackpad much, if any at all. My main use would be in Dock mode, and as a laptop on vacations, using a mouse.

 

So I didn't wait, and chose the ThinkPad Yoga over a similar Dell product because of my experience with ThinkPads as an IBMer, and the supposedly better Lenovo support. So far, I have rued my decision. The ThinkPad S1 Yoga has an obvious design flaw. The trackpad should be automatically disabled when in Dock mode, but isn't. There is not an easy way (or any way) to turn off the trackpad manually. The aluminum foil circumvention is neat, but is an affront to those buying a ThinkPad.

 

When will Lenovo step up to the trackpad issue?

 

Possible solutions, and the probability of each happening (in my lifetime).

  • Lenovo disabling the trackpad when the ThinkPad S1 Yoga operated in Dock mode. Probability: 0% (would require a redesign and replacement of the hinges/keyboard)
  • Lenovo offering to replace the Yoga S1 keyboard assembly (plus hinges) with a ThinkPad Yoga 12 keyboard assembly and hinges. Probability: 1% (a great solution, the right thing to do, but too expensive)
  • Lenovo providing a manual disabling of the trackpad. Probability: 50% (Add a setting for the trackpoint/trackpad in the settings menu, a major software change, but cheaper than #1)
  • Lenovo replacing ThinkPad S1 Yoga with fully functioning ThinkPad Yoga 12, X250 or X1 Carbon, and replacing OneLink Dock where needed). Probability: 0%
  • Lenovo standing behind their flagship ThinkPad products and doing the right thing fop their customers. Probability: TBD, but looks like 0%

I entered a hardware ticket for this issue, as it is an obvious hardware problem and probably a serious design flaw. I have not had any response for the ticket.

As I have little hope of any resolution for this problem, how much would it cost me to replace this almost unusable ThinkPad with one that will work?

Could Lenovo Support and Lenovo Customer Care respond to this issue?
--

joesixgig
802.11n
Posts: 533
Registered: ‎07-20-2009
Location: US
Views: 1,849
Message 12 of 91

Re: STILL NOT FIXED!!!


@Manotee wrote:

 

Possible solutions, and the probability of each happening (in my lifetime).

  • Lenovo disabling the trackpad when the ThinkPad S1 Yoga operated in Dock mode. Probability: 0% (would require a redesign and replacement of the hinges/keyboard)

Could Lenovo Support and Lenovo Customer Care respond to this issue?


This should be doable without hardware changes. The system can be configured to go to sleep when the lid closes, so clearly the hardware can detect this state. All that is needed is a trackpad driver change. Your estimate of the probability could still be close to the mark though.. Smiley Happy

 

Kidding aside, it would make total sense to disable the trackpad on screen closure, so I hope they fix the driver ASAP.

Manotee
Blue Screen Again
Posts: 44
Registered: ‎05-01-2015
Location: US
Views: 1,844
Message 13 of 91

Re: STILL NOT FIXED!!!

I had forgotten about the lid closing options. Lenovo has a way to
disable the trackpad, as it happens when opened past horizontal (tent,
stand, tablet modes). Why it seems impossible to do when the lid is
closed is surprising. I haven't seen this issue discussed for any other
ThinkPads. It seems to be unique to the Yoga series.

As an aside, my cursor is acting up more frequently, even with the
aluminum foil circumvention. I have had this window minimize several
times as I type. It is very frustrating when typing documents and notes.
At least I now seldom have a window close as I am typing.

I did open a hardware ticket for this issue for my ThinkPad Yoga. I
wonder why no one having this issue has mentioned opening one and what
the response was. As soon as I talk to Lenovo Hardware Support and have
a clear understanding as to how they view this issue and what their
solution is, I will post it.

I am surprised I had to open a hardware ticket. It is obvious Lenovo is
aware of the issue. I am astounded they have not developed a solution
and posted it on the FAQs and as a reply in the many cursor items in the
Community Forum. At least they should have acknowledged this is a
problem and that a solution is being pursued.

The other ThinkPads are more often used by enterprise customers and many
of them will be used docked. So, Lenovo obviously designed them to be
docked and tested them to make certain they would work. The ThinkPad
Yoga models seem to be the redheaded stepchild in the ThinkPad series.
They are more rugged and robust than the non-ThinkPad Yogas and have the
OneLink port, but seem to be targeted to the consumer market. Docking is
probably not as common occurrence in the consumer market, so even though
the Yoga has the docking port, it doesn't seem to have had the rigorous
testing of the docking capability as the other ThinkPads. There is no
way my Yoga could have passed a test for proper operation when docked.

As another aside. Although the 12" ThinkPad Yoga is frequently referred
to as the ThinkPad Yoga 12 (as it is described on the sales website),
the official designation seems to be ThinkPad Yoga. Why the other
ThinkPad Yogas are identified by their screen size, and the 12" ThinkPad
Yoga isn't is another mystery that may never be resolved.



Manotee
Blue Screen Again
Posts: 44
Registered: ‎05-01-2015
Location: US
Views: 1,836
Message 14 of 91

Re: STILL NOT FIXED!!!

I figured I would try something new this morning. Since the trackpad is disabled when the Yoga is in tablet mode, I powered off my Yoga, twisted it into tablet mode and powered up. The good news is the external keyboard and mouse work in tablet mode. The bad news is the external monitor will only operate in landscape (flipped) mode. I reset back to landscape (not easy to do with the screen upside down), and it would show upright. As soon as I left the display resolution window, the screen would reset back to flip mode.

 

I had to power off, open my Yoga to laptop mode and power up. I then powered down, closed the lid, and powered up. The external monitor is now correctly oriented.

 

Thinking outside thebox does noit always produce the results you expect.

Manotee
Blue Screen Again
Posts: 44
Registered: ‎05-01-2015
Location: US
Views: 1,826
Message 15 of 91

Re: STILL NOT FIXED!!!

I tried disabling the TrackPad. This reduced the jumping cursor, but did not eliminate it. However, I have been able to operate my ThinkPad Yoga with the jumping cursor eliminated.

 

When I operate my Yoga connected to the dock in tablet mode, the cursor works perfectly. The disabling of the Yoga keyboard, TrackPoint and TrackPad eliminates the jumping cursor. I found if you leave the Yoga screen active, the external monitor is properly oriented Only if you use F7 to to disable the Yoga screen will the external  monitor be flipped.

 

Fortunately, even though the Yoga keyboard, TrackPoint and TrackPad are disabled, the dock and Bluetooth external devices still work.

 

Operating in tablet mode I have not seen my cursor jump at all. Even leaving my Yoga unattended all night, the cursor hadn't moved when I checked it this morning. The main drawback is the Yoga screen is visible,giving an eerie glow to the shelf it is in.

 

I looks like the only solution is to have the Yoga keyboard, TrackPoint and TrackPad disabled when the lid is closed, just like when used in stand, tent and tablet mode. This may require a change to the hinges, but maybe it can be done through software.

 

 

Manotee
Blue Screen Again
Posts: 44
Registered: ‎05-01-2015
Location: US
Views: 1,809
Message 16 of 91

Re: STILL NOT FIXED!!!

It's me again.

 

Lenovo responded to my hardware ticket for the jumping cursor, sending not 1, but 2 systemboards and a TrackPad (complete with palm rest bezel). The service agent called to determine which systemboard to use, and started taking apart the ThinkPad Yoga. When he got it apart, he discovered the TrackPad that was sent was different than the TrackPad in my Yoga. It had an extra part and an extra cable.'

 

After talking with support again, it was decided I needed to ship my Yoga to Lenovo for more detailed analysis. I am waiting for my shipping box.

 

I absolutely had to know if the problem was really associated with the OneLink Dock. To test without the Dock I needed a second USB hub and an HDMI to HDMI Mini cable. I unplugged everything from my OneLink, used my ThinkPad power adapter, and connected everything to my Yoga. With the lid closed and powered up, I still have the jumping cursor. It is not quite as jumpy as when connected to the dock, but it still jumps. Of course, even when using the dock, the jumping occurrence waxes and wanes.

 

The problem seems to be associated with using the Yoga with the lid closed, not the dock. I think the dock was blamed because most users running the Yoga with the lid closed will use a dock. But I eliminated the dock and the jumping cursor still occurs.

 

It is a Yoga problem, not a dock problem. Let's close the lid on this problem and fix the Yoga. I still think disabling the keyboard, TrackPad and TrackPoint as when the Yoga is twisted past 180° will fix the problem.

joesixgig
802.11n
Posts: 533
Registered: ‎07-20-2009
Location: US
Views: 1,803
Message 17 of 91

Re: STILL NOT FIXED!!!

This is a huge problem, bad enough to return the unit had I still been in the return period. 

 

Updating the UltraNav driver to the latest version (18.0.7.103) hasn't helped. Still happens. 

joesixgig
802.11n
Posts: 533
Registered: ‎07-20-2009
Location: US
Views: 1,788
Message 18 of 91

Re: STILL NOT FIXED!!!

I disabled the touchpad in the "ThinkPad" section of the control panel > mouse settings, but the random clicking issue remains.

 

In the past ten minutes connected to the onelink dock with the TPY screen closed

- a chrome session got terminated due to a spontanous click in the upper right corner (that's a new one?!),

- the clock was shown due to a spontaneous click in the lower right corner, and

- a right click menu spontaneously appeared somewhere on the middle of the screen. 

 

Any feedback from Lenovo here? Are people looking into the cause? Seems like it has to be a touchscreen issue right? If disabling the touchpad doesn't solve it, and the pointer appears at a new point, it seems most likely that the touchscreen driver is to blame. Except the touch screen should be deactivated when the screen is closed. Is it not?

Manotee
Blue Screen Again
Posts: 44
Registered: ‎05-01-2015
Location: US
Views: 1,785
Message 19 of 91

Re: STILL NOT FIXED!!!

I don't believe it is the external touchscreen monitor.. My external
monitor has a USB cable that sends the touch to the ThinkPad. I
unplugged the USB cable and verified the touch screen was inactive. The
jumping cursor was not affected.

I also removed the OneLink dock and ran my Yoga in closed mode with all
external devices connected through HDMI Mini, and USB (using hubs). The
jumping cursor still occurred. It may have been reduced, but the jumping
cursor I experience sometime is infrequent, sometimes very frequent.

My ThinkPad Yoga has been sent in for analysis and/or repair. I included
a report of all my experiences and results. The only thing that has
worked for me is twisting the Yoga into tablet mode. still connected to
the dock. In tablet mode the external devices still work, and the cursor
works normally, no jumping at all. The only thing different about tablet
mode is the Yoga has sensed it is no longer in laptop mode and disables
the keyboard, TrackPoint and TrackPad. I think the Yoga should disable
them when it senses the lid is closed.

joesixgig
802.11n
Posts: 533
Registered: ‎07-20-2009
Location: US
Views: 1,782
Message 20 of 91

Re: STILL NOT FIXED!!!

That makes some sense, but even manually disabling the touchpad / trackpad this issue still happened on my system. I don't think the trackpint or the keyboard driver can 'instantly' send the pointer to a corner, but who knows. 

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