Welcome to our peer-to-peer forums, where owners help owners. Need help now? Visit eSupport here.

English Community

ThinkPad NotebooksThinkPad: T400 / T500 and newer T series Laptops
All Forum Topics
Options

3 Posts

06-22-2017

Germany

10 Signins

71 Page Views

  • Posts: 3
  • Registered: ‎06-22-2017
  • Location: Germany
  • Views: 71
  • Message 1 of 4

Keyboard ergonomics - Ctrl+Shift on european keyboard

2017-06-22, 21:17 PM

Hi!

 

I am a new thinkpad user (T470) and one of the reasons that made me pick it up was the famous keyboard quality and the trackpoint, which I intended to use for fast programing.

 

As many new users, one thing that I found odd was the position of the Ctrl and Fn keys. I know that I can switch them in the BIOS or in the Lenovo settings app. However, after 1 month of switching back and forth, I decided to keep the default layout for the following reasons:

1) I get it: Ctrl closer to the center of the keyboard makes it less of a stretch to press Ctrl+Letter, while Fn+Letter is never used.

2) There is an unnavoidable, backlit "Crtl" and "Fn" written in the keys. So, if I am in switch mode, I can't avoid pressing the wrong key if I happen to look at it (it's just like trying to say the color of the words RED and GREEN).

3) The "Ctrl" key is larger and slighty to the left, so even if I am in switch mode and I want to copy-paste, I still hit the "Ctrl" key every time regardless, introducing a mute Fn+C and next pasting the wrong piece of code. This is way more  annoying than just getting used to the thinkpad layout and use the big fat Ctrl key that says "Ctrl" (and honestly, it is fine after a week).

 

Now... considering the above, and after accepting that Thinkpads have Ctrl in the right place and the other 90% of laptops are wrong, can someone explain me how am I supposed to press Crtl+Shift+[...] on a non-US keyboard? (with a short LeftShift and a < key).

 

Particularly annoying are Crtl+Shift+ESC(task manager) and Crtl+Shift+Z(re-do) wich require me to use both hands. I also use Crtl+Shift+[...] for many years for all my custom shortcuts, for the single reason that can press both keys with my left thumb and quickly swith between Crtl+Shift+[...] and Crtl+[...], (in contrast with Ctrl+Alt+[...] wich require more stretching). This is seriously ruining my productivity to the point that I decided to carry an usb keyboard with me.

 

The only solution that I have in mind is to re-map the Fn+Shift combination to Ctrl+Shift, since there's no use for the former anyway. This way I would use the big fat key that says "Ctrl" to do a Ctrl+C, and use the fast FN+Shift for the extra combinations. I have been trying to do it with Auto Hot Key but no sucess... Any ideas?

 

Final note: I only expect this rant to make sence for people who consider that having a trackpoint in the center of the keyboard is necessary, because moving one's hands away to the touch pad is not efficient enough.

 

Thanks for the attention!

Cheers,

Daniel

Reply
Options

987 Posts

06-03-2011

United States of America

591 Signins

14790 Page Views

  • Posts: 987
  • Registered: ‎06-03-2011
  • Location: United States of America
  • Views: 14790
  • Message 2 of 4

Re: Keyboard ergonomics - Ctrl+Shift on european keyboard

2017-06-22, 23:36 PM
Very interesting question. I don't normally use Crtl+Shift+[...] for much of anything. My laptop does have a European keyboard. I tried to press the keyboard combinations you just mentioned, and they were quite difficult.
As much as I love the standard ThinkPad layout, I've been thinking about swapping them in the BIOS. I go between a full-size desktop keyboard & my laptop. My desktop keyboard doesn't have a Fn key because Lenovo doesn't make a full-size ThinkPad keyboard with a number pad for stand-alone use. I find switching between the two challenging. I tend to hit Fn or Ctrl when I want the other key until my brain adjusts to th switch.
X1 Carbon 3rd Gen Type 20BT i7-5500U, 2560x1440 (non-touch), Win 10 Pro, 8GB RAM, 512 SSD, Intel 7625 WiFi, BT 4.0 | ThinkVision P24q-10 monitor

------------------------------------------
When asking for help, post your question in the forum. Remember to include your system type, model number, and OS. Do not post your serial number.

Did someone help you today? Thank them with a Kudo!

If you find a post helpful and it answers your question, please mark it as an "Accepted Solution"! This will help others with the same question in the future.
Reply
Options

3 Posts

06-22-2017

Germany

10 Signins

71 Page Views

  • Posts: 3
  • Registered: ‎06-22-2017
  • Location: Germany
  • Views: 71
  • Message 3 of 4

Re: Keyboard ergonomics - Ctrl+Shift on european keyboard

2017-06-23, 8:30 AM

wrote:
My desktop keyboard doesn't have a Fn key because Lenovo doesn't make a full-size ThinkPad keyboard with a number pad for stand-alone use.

That is another issue that I have... I would eventually bend my brain and develop new muscle memory to live without crtl+shift, if I would be able to do the same layout in my desktop at work.

I dont understand why lenovo bothers to sell an external keyboard that has exactly the same number of keys as the laptop. I accept the trade off for portability on a laptop, but a external keyboard must have propper home/end-pgup/pgdown cluster above the arrows and a number pad.

 

Reply
Options

987 Posts

06-03-2011

United States of America

591 Signins

14790 Page Views

  • Posts: 987
  • Registered: ‎06-03-2011
  • Location: United States of America
  • Views: 14790
  • Message 4 of 4

Re: Keyboard ergonomics - Ctrl+Shift on european keyboard

2017-06-23, 14:05 PM
I wouldn't mind the laptop layout with extra keys. If they just took the keyboard with TrackPoint and buttons (I don't need a trackpad) from a P71 and put it in an external format, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.
X1 Carbon 3rd Gen Type 20BT i7-5500U, 2560x1440 (non-touch), Win 10 Pro, 8GB RAM, 512 SSD, Intel 7625 WiFi, BT 4.0 | ThinkVision P24q-10 monitor

------------------------------------------
When asking for help, post your question in the forum. Remember to include your system type, model number, and OS. Do not post your serial number.

Did someone help you today? Thank them with a Kudo!

If you find a post helpful and it answers your question, please mark it as an "Accepted Solution"! This will help others with the same question in the future.
Reply
Forum Home

Community Guidelines

Please review our Guidelines before posting.

Learn More

Check out current deals!

Go Shop
X

Save

X

Delete

X

No, I don’t want to share ideas Yes, I agree to these terms