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20 Posts

03-24-2021

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T-Series Throttling

2021-03-24, 17:01 PM

Hello everyone,

 

As many, many of you seem to know there is an ongoing issue with throttling and the T-Series of laptops. We've seen it primarily in the T480 and now in the T14 Gen 1 laptops.

 

The affected equipment:

T480: i5-8350U OR i7-8650U, on the Pro 135W or Ultra 135W docks

T14 gen 1: i5-10210U, on the USB-C Dock Gen 2

 

All equipment is up-to-date in drivers, windows updates (20H2 at this moment), and BIOS. These updates provided by the Lenovo System Update utility. Dock firmware up-to-date.

 

The symptoms:

Machine throttling down to 200MHz or 400MHz, instability leading to BSOD or inability to be used for a few minutes.

 

The agitators:

Video conferencing (sending OR receiving) using products such as WebEx or Teams. Sometimes, albeit rarely, other high performance apps or several apps at once can agitate, but this is less common.

 

Timing of issue:

We primarily started seeing this about a year ago, with the strong push for web conferencing due to the pandemic. We however continue to see T-series laptops be randomly affected by this throttling. Some machines back then and some now. These machines have only the series and aforementioned agitators in common. No amount of old image, new image, or running internal proprietary software seems to alleviate the issue or agitate the issue.

 

Known relief:

None of the following is a silver bullet, but we have seen the issue get better with some of these occasionally. The issue will inevitably return, however.

 

Use of 3rd-party CPU/GPU power management (ThrottleStop, Afterburner)

Use of 170W PSU on 135W dock

Stop using the dock

Limit number of additional screens, or completely remove additional screens

Unplug / re-plug PSU.

 

Myself and many, many other team members have scoured the internet for ideas and potential solutions. Unfortunately no unit we provide to the manufacturer can they ever replicate the issue, and therefore will not provide a fix or advice.

 

Happy to provide other information / try practically any suggestion.

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5645 Posts

08-02-2018

Philippines

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Re:T-Series Throttling

2021-03-24, 20:30 PM

Hi NateInIT!


Welcome to community forums


Can you send us a screenshot of the system information on both devices, highlighting the BIOS and OS versions? Another screenshot for the display driver version on both devices? Can you also provide us the exact error code when it goes to BSOD? Based on the smart find link, the USBC Dock Gen 2 is not listed as compatible with the Thinkpad T14 Gen 1 and you can refer to this link: https://accessorysmartfind.lenovo.com/#/search?categoryL1Name=Docking&categoryL2Names=Mechanical%20Docks&keyword=&pageIndex=1&pageSize=40&query=20S0&systemId=

Let us know.

 


Jwes_Lenovo



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20 Posts

03-24-2021

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  • Message 3 of 76

Re:T-Series Throttling

2021-03-25, 14:04 PM

I don't have a problematic T14 at hand, so I'm waiting on screenshots from that, but the following is from a particularly troublesome T480. It shows all the symptoms and agitators from my OP.

 

The BSOD that we see, though it is the rarest of the symptoms (perhaps 1 out of 10 T480s that meet the criteria of this issue see it) produces a 0x0000009F BSOD.

 

I appreciate the doublecheck on the Dock, but alas, it IS compatible per your very link: https://accessorysmartfind.lenovo.com/#/search?categoryL1Name=Docking&categoryL2Names=Universal%20Cable%20Docks%20%28USB%29&keyword=&pageIndex=1&pageSize=40&query=20S0&systemId=

 

You just had the mechanical docks selected. The T14s we've begun to deploy (about 40 at this point with a reported issue in  3 of the deployed 40) are using the generically named ThinkPad USB Dock Gen 2 in the universal section, please see the link provided.

 

Further data from my mining: the issue appears to really begin at the start of April in 2020 with only a single issue that could be related being reported in January. We began deploying T480s in 2018? I believe with really no issue besides the well-known firmware destroying bug. With ~150 laptops reported out of our deployed X000 machines. So the incident rate is *just* enough to be very bothersome.

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20 Posts

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Re:T-Series Throttling

2021-03-25, 15:00 PM

Seems flood protection prevented me form attaching two screenshots

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20 Posts

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Re:T-Series Throttling

2021-03-30, 13:52 PM

Continuing to accept thoughts here on other instances of this.

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  • Message 6 of 76

Re:T-Series Throttling

2021-03-30, 21:10 PM

Sorry for the confusion. Try installing this display driver version from Intel: https://downloadcenter.intel.com/product/126789/Intel-UHD-Graphics-620

 

 


Jwes_Lenovo



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73 Posts

03-31-2021

Poland

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  • Message 7 of 76

Re:T-Series Throttling

2021-04-01, 8:39 AM

We have got exactly the same problem on our T14s Gen 1 20T0S0A800

We bought 4 pieces of that s.. unit.

And on all of them we have same issue 0,29GHz couple times a day during call on Teams/Zoom etc

Interesting observation: the more participants in the call the more chance that will happen.

 

What helps i working on battery. This always works.

Other solution is to restart service called Lenovo Intelligent Thermal Solution.

So for last 8 months people that got this model struggle with it.

 

We have tried numerous solutions:

- clean Windows 10

- waiting for Windows upgrades

- waiting for BIOS and drivers

- registry tricks

- different power plans

- we looked at Intel Extreme Tuning 

- we were overwriting drivers and installing those from Lenovo website

- we were installing drivers in particular order suggested by Lenovo

- we have also sent one laptop to Lenovo but they couldn't reproduce problem (we thought back then the problem solved Windows 10 2004 (build 19041.508).

 

So after those 8 months we know more about the problem but there is no fix.

The biggest problem is that we distributed this laptop to C-level people.

They are extremely patient during that time (8 months!) but also extremely frustrated and powerless and possibly hopeless.

 

In addition T14s with IR cam has terrible picture when there is not enough light. So we had to buy external cams for those people as picture from internal cam is unacceptable.

T14s is piece of junk. We need solution to this issue.

 

 

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  • Message 8 of 76

Re:T-Series Throttling

2021-04-02, 12:21 PM

Unfortunately the units I could quickly get set to test on this, the two referenced earlier in images, neither machine saw improvement with the driver change. Similar symptoms still: webex/Teams video, lock down to 200MHz or 400Mhz.

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73 Posts

03-31-2021

Poland

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  • Message 9 of 76

Re:T-Series Throttling

2021-04-02, 19:51 PM

Hi NateInIT!

@NateInIT I have couple questions to you:
- can you easily reproduce issue "on demand" (like does this happen every time on 1:1 call on Teams for instance?)
- how fast this occurs after Teams call begin?

- when this happens and CPU is 200 or 400MHz, what if you quickly restart service Lenovo Intelligent Thermal Solution?
- what if on the machine there is clean Windows and only Teams - does this also happen?

 

Thanks :)

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73 Posts

03-31-2021

Poland

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  • Message 10 of 76

Re:T-Series Throttling

2021-04-05, 10:23 AM

It seems like Lenovo released new BIOS to T14 Gen 1 (type 20S0, 20S1, 20S2, 20S3)

And indeed in README they say:

[Problem fixes]  - Fixed an issue where CPU has very low frequency after resume from sleep mode.

Sadly there is nothing to my T14s
But it means there is hope and someone in Lenovo knows about this long lasting problem.

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