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20 Posts

05-31-2021

Spain

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Re:T14s extreme throttling (<0.5ghz instead of 3-4.5ghz)

2021-05-31, 20:41 PM

Just for the record, we have several T14s in our company and all of them have the same issues. 

Some other colleagues have similar laptops of other brands (HP, Dell, etc.) -we get them from a renting service, so we don’t always get same models or brands; support is external also-  I’ve tried replicating the issue on laptops with the same CPU + GPU, and there I can reach thermal limits easier than on T14s, but never hit this “power draw” limit… which makes me suspect it’s related to Lenovo’s Firmware or drivers.

 

Also can replicate when using the Wifi connection at max speed (WIFI 6) for a long period of time (transferring huge files from/to NAS, for example). The fact that it happens when “too much power” is being used (USB disks, WIFI + huge file writes, sustained high TDP) makes me think it’s somehow power related.

 

I’ve had this issue since june’20 and have been closely monitoring this thread and other similar ones, just today decided it was time to speak up. If we all do, cause it’s obvious this is a general problem, it will be easier for Lenovo to notice and provide a fix.

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73 Posts

03-31-2021

Poland

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Re:T14s extreme throttling (<0.5ghz instead of 3-4.5ghz)

2021-05-31, 21:03 PM

@JDOnno 

I can't agree more with you :) And I also think that could be power related. Because camera in T14s sucks I had to buy external cameras for C-Level people so that could also drain some power from laptop and increase the issue.

 

@Nizzyx 

I was also silent for months and that didn't help.

On Carbon X1 thread Lenovo were saying that "this is by design". Here I heard that too.

Maybe showing Lenovo how this can be replicated might help. Like tomorrow I am going to copy USB -> USB.

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383 Posts

09-04-2019

United States of America

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Re:T14s extreme throttling (<0.5ghz instead of 3-4.5ghz)

2021-06-01, 5:52 AM

Maybe folks have units that left the factory without thermal paste? P43s here. I know its a year old model but have never experienced the problems you folks persistently write about here daily.

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20 Posts

05-31-2021

Spain

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Re:T14s extreme throttling (<0.5ghz instead of 3-4.5ghz)

2021-06-01, 16:56 PM

 @JEShumMPK  P43s is different Intel Core generation, more related to T490s than T14s Gen1.

 

Also, this is not a thermal issue... laptop can sustain a high temp for a really long time (actually, it's stable at 100C; quite a feat). Thermal paste was correctly applied when I checked, repasted myself in March as I do with all my laptops. When the throttling happens, at least on my case, temps are 40-45C for the processor.... almost same as if it was idle.

 

It seems to be a general issue with laptops coming from Spain, Poland, USA, etc... with very different purchase dates and probably manufacture dates; which leads to believe this is a software issue (faulty drivers and/or firmware). The fact that the CPU freq stabilizes when restarting the "Lenovo Intelligent Thermal Solution Service" makes me think it's a software issue, the fact that it won't go back to normal until a reboot is performed makes me think it's a firmware issue. Probably a combination of both, who knows.

 

The most annoying thing is that it doesn't happen when a high load is applied for a long time (then performance degrades over time, as it would in any other laptop); it's not so demanding tasks that have energy usage spikes what fire up this issue. 

 

Also, can't replicate when running on battery, only when connected to AC. If it throttles and you unplug from power, it goes back to normal after a while. If you start on battery, it won't happen. There is a safeguard somewhere for not allowing an excessive power consumption when running on AC, that times out after you change to battery mode. Thing is, if thermals are safe... what is the safeguard for? And most importantly, what triggers it so we can avoid running into this situation? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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73 Posts

03-31-2021

Poland

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Re:T14s extreme throttling (<0.5ghz instead of 3-4.5ghz)

2021-06-01, 18:03 PM

@JDOnno I have exactly same conclusions.

 

Today I came to work and T14s 20T0 had a good day. I couldn't replicate anything. Laptop wasn't moved, wasn't even restarted. Everything was fine entire day. Magic.

Teams meeting went well, USB copying too. So I decided to do other test this time using RDP. So I remoted from other machine and I used as usual Intel Extreme Utility.

 

As you can see this time frame is 1 hour

Power mode: Better performance

Temperature around 80C and after 14 minutes drop to 0,6-1,0 GHz, then temp 60Cand after 15min laptop decided to go for normal GHz, after around 15min again back to 0,6-1,0GHz. Then I switched to Best Performance and temperature went to 94C and it was like that for around 8 minutes then go down to 0,6GHz and that repeated 4 times. (this is not on the screen).

 

So I decided to use Best Performance but leave RDP session and continue same test on machine (I didn't restart anything I just switched)

I switched when CPU was back to normal.

As you can see I was able to stress test machine for and hour on 100C and there was no problem to T14s to handle that.

Thermal Throttling was on making sure computer won't fire up I guess.

But why RDP session behaves differently I have no explanation.

 

In addition I run same test on better performance on T480s 20L8S0T900

Better performance, around 72C, laptop stable all the time.

 

My users however have problems on daily basis.

 

Does any of you have any other ways to replicate problem? I heard only of three:

- Teams call with multiple participants

- RDP session

- USB to USB copying

I have currently completely clean Windows 10 Pro with only Lenovo Vantage, Teams and Intel Extreme Utility.

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20 Posts

05-31-2021

Spain

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Re:T14s extreme throttling (<0.5ghz instead of 3-4.5ghz)

2021-06-01, 20:41 PM

@maxt32 If on teams with multiple people with everyone’s camera on I share my screen (for example, to present a PowerPoint), the throttling starts earlier.

 

RDP is also “sharing desktop” somehow…


Maybe giving GPU a hard time makes CPU throttle? But then… why doesn’t it happen on battery?

 

Makes no sense at all, but who knows, I’ve seen weirder stuff happen :)

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73 Posts

03-31-2021

Poland

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Re:T14s extreme throttling (<0.5ghz instead of 3-4.5ghz)

2021-06-01, 21:34 PM

Yeah after many months I actually have more questions than answers. I will not solve this, this is low level firmware/driver programming.

 

For example during those calls it very often happens during first two minutes. If 5 minutes will be ok then entire meeting will be fine.

Sometimes I think also that GPU is involved, sometimes it isn't.

So my current conclusion is that intelligent cooling is randomly doing something, like entering loop, or if clause, or other weird condition and it keeps value and tell CPU to slow down. I am trying to make sense out of it while this can be completely random and unrelated.

We were also playing 4K video from youtube to speed up occurrence.

 

I am dreaming of a day that some Lenovo representative (driver programmer) will contact one of us to see with his own eyes the problem and try to troubleshoot. Actually in this thread there are enough examples to replicate the problem and enough people to contact :)

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8 Posts

06-02-2021

Denmark

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Re:T14s extreme throttling (<0.5ghz instead of 3-4.5ghz)

2021-06-02, 7:45 AM

I have this same issue. Just got the T14s Gen 2 and it's absolutely terrible.... unusable really.

 

I'll return it and continue using my good old T480s :-(

 

Shouldn't be like this.....

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73 Posts

03-31-2021

Poland

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Re:T14s extreme throttling (<0.5ghz instead of 3-4.5ghz)

2021-06-02, 8:47 AM
Oh no, that's not good. I also ordered T14s Gen2 hoping this problem is only about 20T0. Can you explain when this happens? In what circumstances?
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8 Posts

06-02-2021

Denmark

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Re:T14s extreme throttling (<0.5ghz instead of 3-4.5ghz)

2021-06-02, 9:09 AM

What i experience: During  video playback (e.g. Youtube, Twitch, etc) or Teams calls with video the CPU throttle down to 0,3-0,5 GHZ and everything becomes sluggish and unsuable.

 

Old reported issue and no fix apparently.

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