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163 Posts

07-02-2011

USA

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Betreff: T420s Fan noise Issue

2011-12-01, 18:47 PM
antsh: On 1.30, I am seeing identical behavior to yours, on my 4170-CTO. 1.30 is an improvement over 1.29, because the fan usually regulates itself properly now. However, it still gets stuck at 4000RPM sometimes, and sleep/wake resets the fan speed to a reasonable level.
This suggests to me that a BIOS update is still required, because the fan getting "stuck" at one speed like this would be a firmware problem.

wrote:

Just an update on the situation with 1.30 and my particular machine.

I have a 4170-CTO that is currently running a clean installed version of Win 7 Pro x64. On battery power, the fan is fine, ramps up and down as expected.

On AC power it will ramp up and down fine for a while, but then something happens (seems to be random at this point) and the fan ramps up to 4000rpm and stays there. If the machine goes through a sleep wake cycle, it seems to reset whatever triggered it, and the fan behaves as it should again.

Lenovo is close, really close, to nailing this down. It seems as though there is a sensor that is being misread somewhere that is a null value or something, causing the fan to think it needs to go full blast. It can be observed if you install HWInfo. There are a few listings that come up and disappear in the EC sensor subsection that are pegged at 144 degrees C.

Just to cover all my bases and to provide as much info to Lenovo as possible, I am running Power Manager Software 3.64, BIOS 1.30 and Power Driver 1.64. My fan settings in the power manager are set to "Balance All Parameters".

Don't give up yet, Lenovo, let's get this fixed!


 

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34 Posts

04-27-2011

San Francisco, CA

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Betreff: T420s Fan noise Issue

2011-12-03, 7:46 AM

Here is a screenshop of HWInfo showing what I mean by pegged sensors, might be of help:

 

Fan Noise

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163 Posts

07-02-2011

USA

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Betreff: T420s Fan noise Issue

2011-12-03, 16:30 PM

To me, that looks like a compatibility issue with HWInfo rather than the sensors actually sending a temperature of 144C to the fan controller.

 

If the fan/power management was actually reading (and reacting to) a temperature of 144C, the system would constantly be throttled at the lowest CPU speed, and maybe it would automatically shut down due to extreme overtemperature. These symptoms would become apparent, and cause far more severe problems than a high fan speed.

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100 Posts

03-16-2009

Czech Republic

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Betreff: T420s Fan noise Issue

2011-12-03, 16:32 PM

144°C would shut down the machine with no doubt.


Lenovo ThinkPad T440s (i5-4300U, 4GB, Intel HD 4400, 256GB SSD, WWAN)
Lenovo Blog CZ
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207 Posts

08-28-2008

Israel

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Re: re: T420s Fan noise Issue

2011-12-04, 17:56 PM

wrote:

1st day with new bios. Seems to have helped a lot, but I'm not in my normal work environment, so can't make a definitive judgement yet. But I have not noticed my fan at all since the BIOS-flash. 

 

But I have had two instant reboots... Anyone else with more crashes than normal?


I got 3 unexpected shutdowns since flashing BIOS 1.30, should I go back to 1.29?

___________________________________________________________
Lenovo Thinkpad T420s
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119 Posts

06-12-2009

Norway

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Re: re: T420s Fan noise Issue

2011-12-04, 18:36 PM
If I knew how, I would.. I'm up to about ten unexpected reboots now. It is my main work computer, I need stability.
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3538 Posts

07-12-2010

Malaysia

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Re: re: T420s Fan noise Issue

2011-12-05, 5:51 AM

All,

 

Engineering's feedback on the issue.

 

1. System idling at desktop on AC or battery - will usually run fan speeds between 0 and 2k RPM - this is base on several thermal sensor placed on the system board.
2. When the system is attached to an external monitor and LCD - this causes increased graphic processing from the system video chips and will cause the fan to run at constant higher speeds - ranging between 2K and 4K RPM
3. When using with two external monitors - the increased video requirements push the thermal profile to keep the fans spinning at highest RPM.

 

Also engineering have asked the following.

 

1. Working environment - noisy / normal / quiet room

2. Laptop idle - fan spinning speed

3. Room temp estimate

5. Laptop temp clocked during that time

6. Temp software used

 

Also to all, please uninstall TPfanControl when doing test as it's known to cause fan to run at high speed even if TPF is set to BIOS mode.

 

//JameZ

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107 Posts

06-28-2011

Italia

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  • Message 708 of 1217

Re: re: T420s Fan noise Issue

2011-12-05, 8:28 AM

wrote:

All,

 

Engineering's feedback on the issue.

 

1. System idling at desktop on AC or battery - will usually run fan speeds between 0 and 2k RPM - this is base on several thermal sensor placed on the system board.
2. When the system is attached to an external monitor and LCD - this causes increased graphic processing from the system video chips and will cause the fan to run at constant higher speeds - ranging between 2K and 4K RPM
3. When using with two external monitors - the increased video requirements push the thermal profile to keep the fans spinning at highest RPM.

 

Also engineering have asked the following.

 

1. Working environment - noisy / normal / quiet room

2. Laptop idle - fan spinning speed

3. Room temp estimate

5. Laptop temp clocked during that time

6. Temp software used

 

Also to all, please uninstall TPfanControl when doing test as it's known to cause fan to run at high speed even if TPF is set to BIOS mode.

 

//JameZ


Hi Jamez, thanks as usual for the feedback. I'll quickly provide some details now. Note that I am on Linux, I hope other people using Windows may provide results for that OS.

 

Before I list the results, I have seen that people have different fan models and experience different fan behaviours. That said, might it help to replace the fan? Can you ask the engineering team what they think about this? I'd kindly appreciate a precise answer, so I can decide whether to call the support for changing the fan or not!

 

And here I go with data:

1) NO!! The fan stays quiet on battery, it spins at 4000 RPMs on AC, even if the laptop is idle.

2) One monitor, always 4000 RPMs

3) Two monitors, always 4000 RPMs

4 - added by me) Internal screen, always 4000RPMs

 

You can see that the fan does  not change its speed. Dear engineering team, Is this that difficult to understand, it simply doesn't work. No magic, no tricks to solve it for me. It doesn't spin down and IT DOESN'T EVER SPIN IN BETWEEN (no 3000 RPMs, ever).

 

As for your second round of questions:

1) Quite noisy at work, dead silence at home

2) Hmmm, let's see. Ah yes, 4000 RPMs

3) Varies between 18-24 Celsius

5) Varies between 38-47 Celsius, mostly around 42-43Celsius, never higher for the standard use case, never lower (It does get higher under heavy stuff, but I rarely run simulation, let's say once in four days I have 70 Celsius for a couple of miuntes)

7) Linux temp sensors (e.g. modprobe coretemp && sensors)

 

Lastly, I would like to say that waiting for two weeks for a list of questions that have been answered many times in this six months makes me quite angry. I find it hardly to believe that an engineering team can only come up with this after two weeks of work. I clearly understand that this is not the only issue that they are working on, but I think that they still ought to do a far better job in getting useful information to users, and not this silly list. As usual, I would like to thank you for keeping it up!

 

I sincerely hope this helps.

Alessandro

 

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7 Posts

11-21-2011

Paris

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  • Message 709 of 1217

Re: re: T420s Fan noise Issue

2011-12-05, 9:19 AM

In the BIOS setup, I set the CPU profile to "balanced" even when running on AC power (the default value was "performance"). With the Linux kernel 3.1.4, the real CPU frequency is 800 MHz and the temperature is now under 50°C. :) 

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5 Posts

11-16-2011

Denver, CO

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  • Message 710 of 1217

Re: re: T420s Fan noise Issue

2011-12-05, 14:03 PM

Hi Jamez,

 

1) This is not my case. I always hover around 4k RPM, on AC or on battery. When it wakes from sleep it's quiet, but it fires up quickly.

2) I am not attached to an external monitor.

3) Same, I have not done this.

 

For the questions:

 

1) Normal office environment with cubicles.

2) Idles speed - 4k ROM

3) 22C/72F

4) 48-52C

5) CoreTemp

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