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19 Posts

12-15-2018

United States of America

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Re: Thinkpad A485 - Bios 1.05 worsens throttling further

2019-02-13, 17:54 PM

I have been studying the dsdt file for the A485 along with the the dsdt file from the 330s and a dsdt file uploaded by someone who owns an E585. Here is what I believe I have discovered.

Fan speed levels are listed in a section called Name (BRTW, Package (0x12)

I have not confirmed by testing and I am still unsure of what code increases or decreases the fan level.

I think I have located the code that adjusts the stapm, fan speed etc based on the performance mode software.

The _WAK, _Q99, and SSKL contain code pertaining to the DYTM and based on the value of the DYTM is sets the stapm for the 3 levels. It also sets the thermal control limit or max temp.

The default is TCL3 which is set to 70 and in high performance mode it uses TCL2 which is set to 86 and in low power it is set to TCL1 which is 76.

I have adjusted the TLC1 and 3 values in all thee methods to be 86 and I can tell you the laptop does try to clock more aggressively. I see that the clock speed will boost into the 3ghz range more frequently for very short times but as soon as it hits the magic 70c temp it down clocks again.

Based on all the digging I did in the dsdt I have come to the following conclusion…

  1. There is either illogical code in the method the controls the processor p states that is conflicting with the stapm and temperature settings (this would explain why clock speeds are all over the place some code is saying to clock higher and other code saying to clock lower and as the temp gets higher and stays high I noticed  the down clocks go from 2.2 and the longer you are at 70c it starts down clocking to .4
  2. OrThe 70c limit is hardcoded into the bios someplace and so it does not matter what code is in the dsdt file the bios is overriding it.I wish I understood more about dsdt files so I could locate and study the method controlling clock speeds. Maybe there is someone out there smarter than me that can figure it out as despite Lenovo acknowledging the issue it seems they are not fixing it.
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20 Posts

10-11-2018

United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

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Re: Thinkpad A485 - Bios 1.05 worsens throttling further

2019-02-13, 17:57 PM

After completely resetting my laptop to stock, I was able to get DSDT editting to function properly. My iGPU will clock up to the max 1100mhz while the CPU stays at the higher 3ghz range for much longer, resulting in a Cinebench score of 630 and 42fps.

 

I believe that the reason it wasn't working before is due to something with the most recent update of the power management driver.

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19 Posts

12-15-2018

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Re: Thinkpad A485 - Bios 1.05 worsens throttling further

2019-02-13, 18:01 PM

Before digging into the dsdt I had concidered the power manager driver being the cause but could figure out how to uninstall it or roll back. Are you still running the latest bios? I am also curios to see if the power manager driver modified the dsdt file in any way.

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20 Posts

10-11-2018

United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

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Re: Thinkpad A485 - Bios 1.05 worsens throttling further

2019-02-13, 18:03 PM

Windows completely refused to uninstall or rollback the driver, so I had to completely reinstall windows. I'm still running the most recent bios though.

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2 Posts

02-08-2019

United States of America

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Re: Thinkpad A485 - Bios 1.05 worsens throttling further

2019-02-13, 19:11 PM
Well this is some good news at least, it seems to point to the throttling / downclocking issue being a software & driver problem that should (in theory at least) be a fairly easy fix for Lenovo to make if they are inclined to do so. I was worried that the problem was hardcoded onto a chip somewhere that BIOS and driver updates couldn't reach.
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19 Posts

12-15-2018

United States of America

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Re: Thinkpad A485 - Bios 1.05 worsens throttling further

2019-02-13, 21:48 PM

One more question what edits did you make to your dsdt after reinstalling windows?

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20 Posts

10-11-2018

United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

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Re: Thinkpad A485 - Bios 1.05 worsens throttling further

2019-02-13, 21:50 PM

I used this program: https://github.com/FlyGoat/RyzenAdj since I didn't want to go through using Clover again. It works perfectly, and it's a helpful GUI without needed to restart or fiddle with anything. I went for 35W.

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27 Posts

12-25-2018

United States of America

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Re: Thinkpad A485 - Bios 1.05 worsens throttling further

2019-02-13, 23:42 PM

FYI, I HIGHLY recommend AGAINST the use of RyzenAdj without knowing what your getting into, SUCH AS the understanding you can fry your laptop which WILL, bar none, void your warranty!

 

What Lenovo needs to FIX! and the information behind it (for the most part) on why you would use this WARRANTY VOIDING tool:

 

There is a BIOS/EC limit on the fan speed of 3500RPM's, I discovered this as I was using it stock before reinstalling window and I left it on my bed one day on a soft blanket being a DERP, when I returned to the room a few min later the die temp was at 93c and still only 3500RPM's for the fan speed, this is despite setting high performance mode in both BIOS and Lenovo's software!

The reason this is important is because the fan itself is rated up to 4500RPM's, its a bit noisy at that speed, but thats no excuse to NEUTER a perfectly capable laptop's performance WHEN you need it (music or gaming easily covered the fan noise up)!

 

The BIOS/EC thermal limit is set to 70c, DESPITE the fact that the CPU has a 95c thermal max.......

 

Tieing the two above togeather paints the ugly picture but also helps point out how important it is to understand what I am about to say:

When the CPU turbo's or the iGPU is in use, the temp can literally jump 5-10c or more in a split second (depending on stock or aftermarket paste, air clearence for the bottom fan intake allowing it to cool faster, ambient temp and much more) meaning that if you set something incorrectly (too high), POOF you now own a BRICK! and Lenovo will rightfully tell you to pound sand!

 

The above said, in my testing with Clover and now RyzenAdj I can say that Lenovo MUST FIX the Thermal barrier currently set at 70c by adjusting it to 80-83c instead, during the last month~ of testing (and this is without even the use of TPFC to get the fan to run at 4500RPM under heavy load) it did not go above 90c EVEN WHEN I adjusted the TDP up to 35w (which i dont recommend doing).

 

While Lenovo isnt going to change the TDP rating as Lenovo's cooling solution just cant handle 35w under ALL use case's, I have run it at 32w, but I prefer 30w to be safe.

 

As superwisemon says (sup from reddit btw), there is a SIGNIFICANT performance boost to be had and as it currently is, this laptop is severly handicapped.

 

 

So, for those of you worried and dont want to use this tool, please join me in asking Lenovo to fix the thernal limit, and stop being stingy on the noise made by higher fan speed!

 

 

Lenovo Fix list:

Change thermal limit to 80c~

Remove fan neutering (at least at 85c...)

 

Lenovo Wish list:

In place of removing the fan limit, add a 3rd option to performance list instead of quiet and performance only, add EXTREME, ok, name it something "lenovo" friendly instead, but its there!

Add TDP control up to 35w, SOME other Ryzen Mobile laptop makers already do this, no reason why not to add it under a WARRANTY VOID tab, or hell, even a "hidden" tab (im down for the return of the hidden menu's!).

Add VRAM allocation options (up to 2GB, down to 512MB), some games I play are murdered or even prevented from running with 1GB VRAM and sadly over half of them DO NOT suppport Dynamic VRAM allocation! (yes, I purchased this as a 60%/40% Play/Work laptop, but those numbers change depending on the day!)

 

Hopefully this helps someone, but at this point, RAMBLING...

 

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100 Posts

08-25-2018

China

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Re: Thinkpad A485 - Bios 1.05 worsens throttling further

2019-02-14, 10:54 AM

I think we all agree here that Lenovo should fire their entire bios coding, support, and software division for making thousands of us put up with this cancer that is TDP throttling.

 

ACROSS ALL THEIR LAPTOPS FROM 2016+

 

Is customer support too daft to get the message? Lenovo certainly is not underfunded considering the 60%+ profit margin on these devices. 

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8 Posts

02-15-2019

United States of America

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Re: Thinkpad A485 - Bios 1.05 worsens throttling further

2019-02-15, 10:21 AM

I am using the same thing to change the limits, I use Linux, and I used to be able to compile the linux kernel in 38 minutes, but with the changed limits, I can do the same in 28 minutes, a total 10 minutes less! However, I do have to set the limites again once the temperature hits 80C, I think this is the BIOS overwriting those numbers once it detected a temperature higher than 80C.

 

Is there anything to indicate Lenovo's default fan control logic by looking at the DSDT file? I have to use thinkfan to control the fan to blow at maximum 4700 RPM otherwise the temperature will hit 90 pretty fast, and 4 out of the 8 cores' frequency will scale down to 1400MHz. But I am also having problem with the temperature fluctuating at low workload, 45C to 70C in a second and gradualy goes down, and this repeats frequently, see attached image, I have a software called grive running every 5 minutes to sync my files to google drive and every time it syncs, this happens. It also happens when browsing the internect or doing any low workload tasks. And the fan would go on and off constantly when using the thinkfan. Something must be going on in the hardware for this strange behavior, it makes no sense. (This is already the case before I started using RyzenAdj just to be clear)

 

By the way, it also looks like Lenovo makes the worst kind of batteries. My internal battery has only 2 cycles and it's currently at 91% health, and my 24WH external battery has 8 cycles and it's already at 87% health, I have own the laptop less than 5 month. This is just rediculous. I also have a Dell laptop, I have owned for 4 years, and the battery is around 80% at this point, just for references.

 

My conclusion is don't buy Lenovo laptops in the future for all this kind of low quality hardware/software, it's not the thinkpad it used to be. Besides the surface materials are really difficult to maintain. It's just not worth it.

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