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llinfeng
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Posts: 15
Registered: ‎09-25-2016
Location: US
Views: 244
Message 11 of 19

Re: Mouse stutter when using any USB dock - T480

I have a T480 and I don't think Lenovo people officially acknolwedge the issue by this Januray (2019).

 

I have spent 4 months working with Premier people, trying to debug the exact same mouse-shuttering problem. All their motherboard-replacing + OS-re-installing attempts ended up not helpful. Per my repeated contacts from 2018 September to 2019 January, none of the personale in the Premier support department acknolwedges that this is a known issue with certain driver.

 

Plus, my symptom is a bit more intense ==> when the mouse freezes (well, moving intermitently), my keyboard also types irrespnosively. Also, my Windows 10 OS shall turn super slow as well. I need to either unplug and re-plug the T480 from/to the Dock and wish myself best of luck; or, I need to abandon all things at hands and give the machine a restart.

 

The problem has occurred when I use the Lenovo ThinkPad Pro+Ultr Docking Stations with mutliple external monitors. I have reproduced the problem with:

  • Two multi-monitors setup with all 3 docks that I have, 2 Ultra and 1 Pro;
  • All my keyboards + mouses combination, including: Microsoft Sculpt mouse + keyboaord, Thinkpad Compact keyboard (both Bluetooth and cable-connected) and a number of mechanical keyboards.
  • A number of hardware replacements, including:
    • Change of mother board, twice or three-times;
    • Putting on the original HDD drive;
    • Putting on the "genuine" converter-enabled M.2 NVMe SSD
  • A good number of system re-install ==> I recall having re-installed Windows OS every week in November ==> after each hardware "fix", I would need to redo the OS-setup Smiley Happy

 

In Feburary 2019 ==> I have totally given up on using my T480 as my daily driver  ==>The original plan with the 3 docks is to keep roaming with the machine from home to office and then back to home. Now, it seats quietly on the "headless Dock", which is not connected to any external monitor nor preferals. I restored my 5 years old office machine, and hooked up all monitors + preferrals to the old guy. I do use my T480 machine daily, but through Windows Remote Desktop Connection.

 

Update in May 2019 ==> my old office machine died and I have to hook all cables back to the docking station. This is the 2nd day of reusing the setup, and things are going well. Some driver may have been fixed, along with Windows updates? Will revisit this post should I see the same problem.

 

CJ0718
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Registered: ‎08-09-2018
Location: US
Views: 220
Message 12 of 19

Re: Mouse stutter when using any USB dock - T480

I have also noticed that the mouse stutter issue has suddenly been resolved.  I am not sure when the fix occured or which update fixed it.  I am, however, now suffering with an incapacitating throttling issue where my CPU's transiently run at 399MHz.  Quite frustrating since this laptop was not cheap.

cpbotha
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Registered: ‎06-10-2019
Location: ZA
Views: 147
Message 13 of 19

Re: Mouse stutter when using any USB dock - T480

I am experiencing these exact same symptoms on my fairly new X1 Extreme.

 

When connected to the Thunderbolt 3 Workstation Dock (170W) at work, I often experience the mouse lags and system slow-dows. At home with a normal Anker USB-C hub, I see the repeating characters. In both these cases, I'm using a MS Sculpt Ergonomic Desktop. I've tried connecting the receiver to different ports.

 

Interestingly, when keeping the ThinkPad connected to the dock, but using its built-in touchpad (to test), I sometimes also experience the stuttering.

 

llinfeng
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Registered: ‎09-25-2016
Location: US
Views: 133
Message 14 of 19

Re: Mouse stutter when using any USB dock - T480

@cpbotha, you may consider upgrading the Windows OS to Build 1903 if your X1 Extreme lets you do so.

 

Yet, I am far from confident that this will solve the problem once and for all ==> I have been encountered the shuttering mouse + irresponsive keyboards for multiple times, and wonder if it is a Thinkpad driver + Windows OS problem. As detailed in a longer post in this thread, I have followed the Premier Support's advise and tweaked all possible moving parts from last September to this December (2018-09 to 2019-01), and have been convinced that there is not a silver bullet to solve the symptoms.

 

For now, I use the laptop in a "headless" fashion, where I boot all monitors through an "on-site" desktop PC (with a dedicated graphics card) and access the laptop "remotely" through RDP connection. My laptop (T480) is docked on a Mechanical Dock with only two cables: one for power and one for Ethernet connection.

 

Hope these may help.

cpbotha
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Views: 128
Message 15 of 19

Re: Mouse stutter when using any USB dock - T480

@llinfeng I upgraded to 1903 on release day. Smiley Happy

I have noticed that if I activate both internal and external monitors, the system lag one sometimes sees is alleviated.

Does your T480 have the nvidia MX option?
llinfeng
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Registered: ‎09-25-2016
Location: US
Views: 116
Message 16 of 19

Re: Mouse stutter when using any USB dock - T480

cpbotha Nope. My T480 has an integrated graphic driver and I had those lags trying to boot two monitors with 2K resolution and another two through DisplayLink device. Historically, the lags have occurred in another setup, where I took a more aggressive approach and tried to boot up 5 monitors from the mechanical dock (two/three from the "Ultra" dock itself, and two/three more through DisplayLink adaptor). I never had any trouble using the laptop all by itself, or with another Type-C connected portable monitor.

As of this typing, I haven't seen the lag for weeks after using the laptop's monitor + one external 1080P monitor. This shall match with your observation with internal + external monitor Smiley Happy

 

 

I think it may make sense to enumerate the "stable" setup in this thread? While there is no official acknowledgment of the repeated lags, a list of "stable" setup may help folks to at least use their pricy black box for production Smiley Happy Per my personal usage with T480 (no dedicated graphics card), here goes setups that I experienced no lag:

  1. Laptop by itself, cable-charged or on battery;
  2. Laptop tethered to an external monitor through its own HDMI port
  3. Laptop with USB-C adaptor, chaining up an external 1080P monitor through HDMI port on the adaptor + (optionally, DisplayLink portable moniotr);
  4. Laptop with an external portable monitor, USB-C connected.

Then, here goes a list of setups that I observe lags (and, yes, I have bought 4 docks from Lenovo, and they are all serving at best as a "hub" for headless RDP connection):

  1. 2 external monitors + 2 DisplayLink-enbaled monitors, connected through the "Pro Dock"; (Two 1080P and 2K + 2440 * 1080)
  2. 2 external monitors + 2 DisplayLink-enbaled monitors, connected through the "Ultra Dock";
  3. external monitors + 2 DisplayLink-enbaled monitors, connected through the "Ultra Dock"; (Four monitors of resolution 1920*1200; and one 1080P);
  4. 2 external monitors + 2 DisplayLink-enabled monitors, connected through the Thunderbolt 3 Workstation Dock
  5. 2 external monitors + 2 DisplayLink-enabled monitors, connected through the G0A10170UL Thunderbolt 3 Graphics Dock (the driver never load and all monitors are black).
llinfeng
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Posts: 15
Registered: ‎09-25-2016
Location: US
Views: 72
Message 17 of 19

Re: Mouse stutter when using any USB dock - T480

@cpbotha I found a new shuttering + keyboard-delay in a minimal setup, and I would like to attribute the shuttering and lagging to the MS Sculpt Ergonomic Desktop!!! (Setup: no Lenovo-branded docking station is involved. I am at home-home and only have one external monitor to work with. I used a simple Type-C extender to set things up.)

 

It appears that the Type-C USB ports may interfere with the reception of the MS Sculpt keyboard+mouse+numpad!! I reproduced the lags 100% when connecting the adaptor for MS Sculpt to a Type-C extension thing (one Type-C/Lightning port to a number of USB 2.0/3.0 ports, along with other HTML + SD card slots). Yet, when I move the receiver of the MS Sculpt thing to the USB port on the laptop itself, no more lags.

 

I believe all the mechanical docks + Thunderbolt xxx Docks should also have an active Type-C port on it. Then, when the MS Sculpt get connected to the dock, they are still around the Type-C ports. I now see the reason for Lenovo to place Type-C ports on the left and other normal-sized USB ports on the right.

 

Hope this may help Smiley Happy

 

(I've been using the Sculpt suite for years, since 2014 or so. It is only until a Pluggable Bluetooth Adaptors failed me multiple times that Bob the Pluggable support guy pointed out the wireless interference possibility. In the Bluetooth Adaptor case, it is USB 3.0 ports generating noises for a certain Bluetooth band.)

cpbotha
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Location: ZA
Views: 54
Message 18 of 19

Re: Mouse stutter when using any USB dock - T480

Hi there @llinfeng

USB3, especially with attached hard drives, potentially interfering with bluetooth and even with wifi on the 2.4GHz band is indeed a well-known problem.

Here is a small demo clip I made in September of 2016 showing how the USB3 on my then MacBook Pro could kill my 2.4GHz wifi on command: https://youtu.be/V-5fx85I-xI

There's also an Intel whitepaper on this phenomenon.

Anyways, I think with the thinkpads we're seeing different combinations of issues:
- USB3 interference.
- usb-c-specific interference perhaps? (this is what you mention above. on my home setup with anker usb-c hub I'm also observing mouse lag via hub, but not mouse lag via usb-a straight into laptop)
- Windows USB power saving in some cases.
- Hybrid graphics / display activation: having both displays active solved the issue with my TB3 workstation dock lagging. (the lag was with the sculpt AND the built-in touchpad)
- Maybe more we don't know about.

cpbotha
Paper Tape
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎06-10-2019
Location: ZA
Views: 30
Message 19 of 19

Re: Mouse stutter when using any USB dock - T480

For future searchers, I would like to summarise what I currently have working and what I don't:

 

All of the below with the latest Windows 1903 and Lenovo updates, as of today.

 

Configuration 1: With the Thunderbolt Workstation dock 170W, all USB power saving disabled in the device manager, and USB power saving disabled in the balanced power plan, and both internal and external display (via the dock) active, and MS Sculpt connected to USB port on the dock: NO LAG.

 

Configuration 2: Without dock, but with X1E connected to Anker USB-C hub and via that Dell Ultrasharp U2515H monitor usb hub, MS Sculpt mouse will always lag, and keyboard will generate repeated characters (mentioned earlier in this thread). As above, all USB power saving has been disabled. However, with MS receiver connected directly to laptop USB-A port, there is NO LAG, as also reported by @llinfeng

 

I would prefer the Anker USB-C and/or Dell Ultrasharp hub being usable for the mouse and keyboard, but at least there is a work-around.

 

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