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5 Posts

10-23-2008

Dallas, tx

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T400 and Incompatibility with Advanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI) PC Hal.dll

2008-10-23, 15:33 PM
I manage the master XP image for our company and I have managed to keep 1 master image for every model of laptop hardware we have, from older P3's all the way to the T61's using the Advanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI) PC Hal.dll.  During the sysprep process, the user would have the option to update the HAL to the ACPI Multiprocessor PC.  Unfortunately, the new T400 and (W500's also) seem to be incompatibile with this HAL.  On the sysprepped image, I get a black screen on initial boot-up.  On reboot, I am asked if I want to start in safe mode.  I also played around with the Standard PC HAL and it also exhibited the same problems.  The only HALs that will work are the ACPI Uniprocessor PC HAL and ACPI Multiprocessor PC.  Using either one of these HALs on my master image could be incompatibile with older hardware.  I hate to have to move to maintaining two images.  Anybody have any experience in getting the Advanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI) PC HAL working on these new Lenovo models?  Thanks in advance.
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319 Posts

11-28-2007

United States of America

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Re: T400 and Incompatibility with Advanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI) PC Hal.dll

2008-11-14, 20:43 PM
The information below from Kayem is pretty much exactly right.  This is a common problem I've seen reported several times and while I have not personally done any testing on Montevina systems from other vendors, I have been told this is not Lenovo-specific.  Given that I work for Lenovo, take that as you will.
 
The root of this issue, though, is not just Montevina.  If you're already using Sysprep to swap HALs on Santa Rosa systems (e.g. T61), or any other APIC system, you should stop.  Booting an APIC system using a PIC HAL is not supported by Microsoft and while it may appear to work, chances are you'll have other problems you may or may not realize, or that you attribute to something else.  A good example of this is power management functions: The systems may have difficulty going in to standby or resuming from standby, or some devices may not be managed properly leading to shortened battery life and so on.
 
While Sysprep will allow you to swap HALs, that doesn't mean it's a good idea.  In fact, Microsoft says explicitly that HALACPI.DLL (which I'd bet is the base HAL you're using) is only compatible with HALACPI.DLL (compare to, say, HALAACPI.DLL which is compatible with HALMACPI.DLL), and you should not swap these out on the fly.  Sysprep is specifically called out:
 
Microsoft does not support running a HAL other than the HAL that Windows Setup would typically install on the computer. For example, running a PIC HAL on an APIC computer is not supported. Although this configuration may appear to work, Microsoft does not test this configuration and you may have performance and interrupt issues. Microsoft also does not support swapping out the files that are used by the HAL to manually change HAL types.
 
When you create a Sysprep image, the image must contain the correct HAL type for the target computer. The following list describes the computers that you can deploy a particular Sysprep image to based on the HAL type in the source computer:
 

 At this point, the article goes on to list which HAL types are compatible:

 

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/309283/

 
If you're dead set on a sysprep image, the best thing to do is manage two images: one for PIC and one for APIC.  If you continue to use a single image, it will be necessary to use some method of swapping out the three key files as described by Kayem below (as noted, WinPE works well).
 
This doesn't mean you'd have to build an APIC image from the ground up.  Simply ghosting down the PIC image, booting WinPE and swapping the files necessary to make it compatible with APIC and then recapturing that as your APIC image works fine.
 
Hope this helps, and kudos to Kayem for posting a solution.
 
Bloo
 

Kayem wrote:

You were right about ntkrnlpa.exe.

 

I copied that over, in addition to the other two, and it's booting into Sysprep! No need to change existing image and lose old model support!

 

So from within WinPE, I download the image, copy the correct HAL for the T400 and reboot.

 

HALMACPI.DLL --> C:\Windows\System32\HAL.DLL

NTKRNLMP.EXE --> C:\Windows\System32\NTOSKRNL.EXE

NTKRPAMP.EXE --> C:\Windows\System32\NTKRNLPA.EXE

 

 

Here are snippets from my batch script (Setting model portion will only work via Altiris):

 

SET MODEL=%#*"SELECT REPLACE(model_num,' ','_') FROM computer WHERE computer_id=%ID%"%

 

IF "%MODEL%" == "2765P3U" GOTO T400

 

:T400

XCOPY .\HALs\halmacpi.dll C:\Windows\System32\hal.dll /y
XCOPY .\HALs\ntkrnlmp.exe C:\Windows\System32\ntoskrnl.exe /y
XCOPY .\HALs\ntkrpamp.exe C:\Windows\System32\ntkrnlpa.exe /y


 

--
Full disclosure: Lenovo issues my paychecks.
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1 Posts

10-24-2008

USA

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Re: T400 and Incompatibility with Advanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI) PC Hal.dll

2008-10-27, 2:26 AM
I'm in the exact same situation. Ephesus, thanks for posting this (so well). Any help? Anyone?
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2 Posts

11-12-2008

Sydney, Australia

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Re: T400 and Incompatibility with Advanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI) PC Hal.dll

2008-11-12, 2:30 AM

I also have the same problem.

 

I have a hardware independant image that i have built in MS VPC / MS VS05 which is then sysprep'd and captured into a WIM file.

 

Before i built my base image in the virtual environment, i configured all the automation files used to install windows, to include the latest Intel Matrix drivers v8.5, including the sysprep files in the base image.

 

I have a custom WinPE v2.1 that the machine boots of the network, and runs a vbscript in the background to partition the disks, and map drives to the network, it then extracts the WIM file to the hard disk, and copies the required drivers from the network share for the model being imaged, and then proceeds to updating the sysprep.inf.

 

One of the process's that is performed is checking what HAL to write into the sysprep file.

 

I have forced all the different types of HAL's by hard coding them in the sysprep, but after the machine reboots i get the black screen of nothing and no hard disk activity, if i reboot into safe mode it freezes on agpCPQ.sys.

 

I use this build process to support around 5,000 different machines at two different companies, there is proberly about 30 different models of machines that are supported by this image, (HP, Acer, Toshiba, IBM, Lenovo)and i only have the issue with the new Lenovo x301, T400 & T500.

 

I have spoken with Lenovo Australia, and dealt directly with the advanced system engineers and even forwarded them a copy of my image for testing, so far they have not been able to provide a solution.

 

They also sent me a copy of the restore disks for those models and windows xp installed without an issue, but the difference is that their image does a fully automated install where as my image is a sysprep'd image.

 

I checked the machines HAL type after it was imaged, and it is the same as the HAL used inside my VM Image.

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24 Posts

10-06-2008

Morgan Hill, Ca

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Re: T400 and Incompatibility with Advanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI) PC Hal.dll

2008-11-12, 5:46 AM

Maybe a security issue with the bios?  Can you boot with a second HD in the ultra-bay after the imaging process?  Just thinking how to trouble-shoot the problem.  I suspect the solution will be simple, but how to find the problem.

Richard
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2 Posts

11-12-2008

Sydney, Australia

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Re: T400 and Incompatibility with Advanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI) PC Hal.dll

2008-11-12, 9:24 AM

Can boot a WinPE image of the network to gain access to the Hard Disk, but what do you expect to do for troubleshooting ?

 

Have Loaded the latest Bios at the time, and have played with all the settings in the Bios, I'm willing to try anything at the moment.

Message Edited by JoBro on 11-12-2008 08:31 PM
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2 Posts

11-12-2008

Mongolia

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Re: T400 and Incompatibility with Advanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI) PC Hal.dll

2008-11-12, 12:27 PM

 

I'm experiencing the same issues with a T500 and R400. I have a XP SP2 master image that starts with T40's and goes up to R&T 61 series. This image is based on the ACPI HAL and uses HAL detection based on model type. It's been working great until now. The T500 and R400 just boot to a black screen after ghosting. Anyone get there master image working with the new T and R series? I don't want to support two images. I wonder if I create an image based on the ACPI Uniprocessor HAL instead of the ACPI HAL if that will work? I would eliminate support for the older models but the new models would work? Suggestions?

Message Edited by nrbrown on 11-12-2008 06:38 AM
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24 Posts

10-06-2008

Morgan Hill, Ca

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  • Message 7 of 14

Re: T400 and Incompatibility with Advanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI) PC Hal.dll

2008-11-13, 3:20 AM

wrote:

Can boot a WinPE image of the network to gain access to the Hard Disk, but what do you expect to do for troubleshooting ?

 

Have Loaded the latest Bios at the time, and have played with all the settings in the Bios, I'm willing to try anything at the moment.

Message Edited by JoBro on 11-12-2008 08:31 PM

I was wondering if you can boot with the bios to another device on the system, just as a sanity check.  That would suggest there is nothing wrong with the bios.... but you probably already know that.

 

I'm also assuming you've verified the drivers.  Next thing I'd try would be the troubleshooting mode to see if I got a clue as to which file loading causes it to hang. 

 

The other idea on the previous append seems also worth pursuing.  Might an image that works with the 400/500's also work with the older models... downward compatible if you will.  I'd probably also search the MS knowledge base, which probably will leads no where.  I'd also google the problem in the oft chance someone else has figured it out. 

 

Out of ideas other than those here too...  

Richard
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3 Posts

11-13-2008

New York, NY

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  • Message 8 of 14

Re: T400 and Incompatibility with Advanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI) PC Hal.dll

2008-11-13, 16:51 PM
I am also experiencing this issue with a new T400. I will be working on this all day -- I'll post any new discoveries.
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2 Posts

11-13-2008

canada

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  • Message 9 of 14

Re: T400 and Incompatibility with Advanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI) PC Hal.dll

2008-11-13, 16:52 PM

I'm not sure if this will help any of you, but it helped me with my HII image on T400's. http://community.landesk.com/support/message/16292;jsessionid=7DD2BDF3A1549030E609E7FEC5CC6A2B#16292

I happen to use landesk for imaging\provisioning, so it was exactly what I needed, but it should help anyone who is also using the acpi hal for HII.

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3 Posts

11-13-2008

New York, NY

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  • Message 10 of 14

Re: T400 and Incompatibility with Advanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI) PC Hal.dll

2008-11-14, 15:58 PM

So I modified my deployment script to copy over the proper hal.dll and ntoskrnl.exe after the rdeploy image is downloaded. Instead of a black screen, I receive a "not shut down properly" warning with Safe Mode options. If I opt to continue booting normally, it will reboot again and and bring me back to the same options, over and over.

 

If I choose to boot into Safe Mode, it actually loads the drivers, boots into the safe mode (after a scary pause at one of the agp sys files loading) but won't let me do anything because it give me a popup box saying the system did not complete setup (a la Sysprep).

 

This is all with the SATA BIOS settings on "Compatibility" mode. If I switch the setting to ACPI, I will still get the reboot loop, but I will get a Stop 0x7b if I go into Safe Mode.

 

Meanwhile, every other laptop and workstation in the company works fine. I refuse to make a second image just for this model.

 

If it didn't come with consequences, I would've threw this T400 out of the window earlier in the week.

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