T440s is killing Samsung 840 pro SSD's [ Edited ]

[fbergen]

Hi all,

I have a new T440s, bought with HDD. As I wanted to use a reliable SSD, I bought a Samsung 840 pro, which I already have running in another system. This is when the problems started. In a German Forum several users report similar problems, so I just wanted to provide a summary here, so that maybe the international community can help. I consider myself as an experienced user, have built various PC systems over the past years and have currently a desktop system running with Samsung 840 pro. Here are the details:

I have installed Windows 8.1 (various times, first clone from HDD and later after recurring problems, complete clean install from Win 8.1 DVD), Bios set to UEFI only + Intel Rapid Start disabled before installation.

The issue is now that with the SSD I am getting constant HDD errors (visible in EventViewer), so that usually after a few hours of operation the OS gets damaged to the point that it cannot boot any more. I should mention that the same system is running stable with the original HDD. First I thought it is a defective SSD and I got it replaced by Samsung. However, with the replaced new SSD I am facing the same issues. Earlier this year I fixed a problem on a desktop PC with 840 pro where the symptoms looked similar. In case of the desktop system, the issue could be fixed by replacing the SATA cable (which is obviously not an option on the T440s).

And yes, I am using the latest SSD firmware, BIOS update, Lenovo drivers. Now, the issue is that I do not seem to be the only one with these problems. Other users in a German Thinkpad forum report similar problems and not only on Windows systems but also on Linux installations (one even got the mainboard replaced by Lenovo and it still did not solve the problem).

I contacted Lenovo support and they replied that they are only supporting original Lenovo SSD's. I must say that I am really disapointed that my brand new system from a renowned manufacturer consistently does not work with one of the most widely used SSD's. Currently, some users in the German forum report that they are having more luck with Samsung EVO SSDs. However, after this experience, I really lost confidence in the T440s. If the design should have problems with Sata 3, I don't know if I can trust this notebook in a business environment.

Any comments/suggestions highly welcome.

Regards,

Frank

 PS: Here is a reference (of at least two other users reporting this issue in this forum here, in German though)

http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/T4-T5-und-neuere-T-Serie/Lenovo-T440s-Samsung-840-pro/m-p/1297091#M1562

[pjc123]

Yeah, that is old news on the various forums. Everyone is going with the EVO model if staying with Samsung, and they have not reported back with any issues. I am going to wait a while before I order an SSD to see if the problem gets resolved because I would prefer getting the PRO model.

[fbergen]

Well, maybe old news for you, but I was still hoping to find a solution (so far, there were a few suggestions to use specific BIOS settings, but from my experience none of these are working).

From my point of view, if this can be fixed at all, it could only be done by either a BIOS upgrade or a new SSD firmware. As the SSD is working on all other systems, I doubt that Samsung will change anything in the firmware. From the reply I got from Lenovo support, they also did not seem to be willing to work on a solution.

Thus the current conclusion would be that the 840 pro (and how many others?) SSD is not working in the T440s.

I would also be interested to get some info which other SSD's (in addition to the Samsung EVO) are working stable in other user's T440s systems.

Regards,

Frank

[targetaudience]

But what is an "original Lenovo SSD"? Lenovo produces no SSDs, so at least they could specify the compatible/incompatible models.

[fbergen]

Well, the phone support did not answer this question. I am not sure from which supplier Lenovo gets the "original Lenovo" SSD.

This is the official Lenovo accessory compatibility sheet which you can download here:

http://support.lenovo.com/de_DE/detail.page?LegacyDocID=ACCS-GUIDE

where Lenovo is listing:

ThinkPad  256GB eDrive SSD / 0B47325 as the compatible drive.

Someone in the German Forum claimed that it is a Samsung 840 pro

Regards,

Frank

[pjc123]

First of all (In the US at least), there are up to 5 different OEM SSD drives to choose from (depending on what base model is selected), with what in addition looks like 3 different variations (regular?, OPAL and edrive). 

Hard drive

• 128 GB Solid State Drive, Serial ATA3[subtract $150.00]
• 180GB Solid State Drive, Serial ATA3 Opal[subtract $50.00]
• 256 GB Solid State Drive, Serial ATA3 eDrive Capable
• 240GB Solid State Drive, Serial ATA3 Opal[add $50.00]
• 512GB Solid State Drive SATA3[add $250.00]

When I was researching SSD drives for the T440s a month ago, I came across the following, although I do not know the accuracy of the information:

Does anyone know the difference between these two drive options:

1. 256 GB Solid State Drive, Serial ATA3 eDrive Capable

2. 240GB Solid State Drive, Serial ATA3 Opal [add $50.00]

The 240GB is an Intel Pro 1500 and the 256GB are either Liteon (Plextor) M6S or Samsung PM841 TLC Drives (OEM 840s).

[sjahanmi]

Why the obsession with SSD? I have a 500mb HDD in my T440s and combined with the M.2 16flash memory it runs quite fast. you can see boot times/shut down and application start up speeds here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1GdvPLqjdQ

[pjc123]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I didn't order the m2 drive and will eventually be replacing the mechanical drive after I burn in the system and make sure there are no problems (I would be installing a 256MB SSD for the main drive and a 128MB SSD for the m2 drive) and will be running various different operating systems on each drive.  However, I am kinda curious what the speed difference is of the mechanical drive, with and without the cache.

[sjahanmi]

you can see boot times/shut down and application start up speeds here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1GdvPLqjdQ I have a 500mb HDD on my T440s

[fbergen]

Meanwhile I have installed a Samsung 830 SSD from another notebook (which now has the 840 pro). The Samsung 830 is now working fine in the T440s, no more disk errors reported in the Windows EventViewer. In addition, the lenovo drive test that can be started from the BIOS boot menu is now also passing (failing before with 840 pro). As I have changed nothing else in the system, using the same BIOS and installation settings etc, this proves that at least in my case the 840 pro is really incompatible with the T440s. So, unless you are ready to face a lot of trouble, I would recommend not to waste time trying this combination.

Apparently, the OEM SSD's Lenovo  is using from Samsung have different firmware/Sata timing and will be working (same as my 830 and tne 840 EVO drives posted by other users). With this experience, If I would have to buy a new SSD for the T440s, I would go for an Intel SSD.

BTW, as far as I know, the original HDD is a hybrid disk (with some SSD storage in order to speed up the boot process) and it also not bad, but as my son (8th grade) has to use the T440s every day in school, I prefer the mechanically more robust version with an SSD.

Regards,

Frank