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tovodeverett
Paper Tape
Posts: 2
Registered: ‎06-13-2017
Location: US
Views: 6,324
Message 1 of 10

ThinkPad T470s BIOS bug - WOL and Thunderbolt 3

It appears that the only way to report a BIOS bug to Lenovo is to post in the Forum (at least that is what hardware support told me), so here goes!

 

Base system:

  • 20HF-CT01WW (T470s)
  • BIOS: 1.11 (issue also showed up under 1.10)
  • Windows 10 Pro Edition, Creators Edition, fully patched. Behavior has been observed both on a freshly built SSD (Samsung 960 EVO 500 GB) and on the shipped Samsung 128 GB SATA SSD with the shipped Windows install.
  • Thunderbolt Firmware: n1wth02w.exe
  • Thunderbolt Drivers: n1wta10w.exe


BIOS Issue related to Wake On LAN and Thunderbolt 3:

  • "Wake On LAN" (Config -> Network) will be referred to as WOL
  • "Thunderbolt(TM) 3" (Security -> I/O Port Access) will be referred to as TB3
  • Using F9 in the BIOS to select defaults and then setting WOL to Disabled and TB3 to Enabled results in:
    • Booting with AC power has no problems. The Thunderbolt port only shows up in Device Manager when the Thunderbolt firmware utility is run - it appears that Thunderbolt ports dynamically attach to the PCI bus only when necessary (i.e. firmware utility asks it to turn on or a device is plugged into the port).
    • Booting with battery from a cold boot (machine powered off for at least 15 seconds) results in a hang with the windows boot time circle of dots cycling endlessly. Powering off the machine at the circle of dots, waiting a second or two, and then powering on the machine usually results in a successful boot into Windows 10.
    • Once the notebooks successfully boots under battery power, restarts are fine.
    • Shutting down the notebook and waiting 15 seconds before powering results in the circle of death hang.
  • Using F9 and then setting WOL to Disabled and TB3 to Disabled results in:
    • Booting with AC power has no problems. Thunderbolt 3 is unavailable (tested using Thunderbolt firmware utility).
    • Booting with battery from a cold boot results in Thunderbolt 3 showing up in Device Manager (use Devices -> View by Connections, look on the PCI Express Bus for stuff attached under "PCI Express Root Port #1 - 9D10"), the Thunderbolt software launches (icon in the notification area of the Taskbar), but the Thunderbolt firmware utility doesn't see the port!
    • Booting with battery from a cold boot and then restarting results in a hang at the initial Lenovo BIOS screen with the fan going to maximum speed.
  • Resetting WOL to "AC Only" resolves the issue.
    • Doing this with TB3 Enabled results in Thunderbolt port that only shows up in Device Manager when the Thunderbolt firmware utility is run (which is believed to be the correct behavior). This behavior is observed both when booting with AC and with battery.
    • Doing this with TB3 Disabled results in a Thunderbolt port that stays resolutely off. This behavior is observed both when booting with AC and with battery.
  • It certainly looks like there is an issue with the WOL setting and that the issue interacts or is involved with the Thunderbolt 3 support.


BIOS Issue 2:

  • It does not appear that F9 (Defaults) affects whether "Thunderbolt(TM) 3" (Security -> I/O Port Access) is Enabled or Disabled. I would expect F9 to reset this setting to a default (probably Enabled).

 

BIOS Observation:

  • If you switch "Boot Mode" to "Diagnostics" (Startup page), the BIOS boot screen includes the line "FOR EVALUATION ONLY. NOT FOR RESALE."  I doubt this is intended!
Lenovo Staff
Lenovo Staff
Posts: 5,302
Registered: ‎10-29-2009
Location: NC
Views: 6,248
Message 2 of 10

Re: ThinkPad T470s BIOS bug - WOL and Thunderbolt 3

Issue #2 is easy so I'll start there.  Security-related settings are never changed by loading defaults.  It's working as designed.

 

For your observation about "FOR EVALUATION ONLY. NOT FOR RESALE.", I will pass this along to BIOS team.  Clearly an oversight!

 

For issue #1, it will take me some time to research this.  I'll get back to you soon.

TUsername77
Paper Tape
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎06-02-2015
Location: Päkapikumaa
Views: 6,226
Message 3 of 10

Re: ThinkPad T470s BIOS bug - WOL and Thunderbolt 3

I have also seen boot stalling at sproadic spinning dots with only repeated powercycling gets me running. I just saw the post above, turned WOL onto 'AC Only" and saw 1st clean boot right away (while connected to AC, no dock, no external screen).

 

Before googling and hitting the post above I had spent days occasionally switching off extras, security and boot related settings at bios, including switching WOL from enabled to disabled. I was suspecting my multimonitor/dock setup myself -- my typical experience was to suspend-sleep or shutdown in dock with power, wired lan and multiple monitors, restarting with no dock, with or without AC power, different network, sometimes with different external monitor, only to see dots & Lenovo banner but could I not see repeatable pattern.

 

My system is 20HFS07J00, bios 1.10, smbios 3.0, emb controller 1.13. W10 creators, with all MSFT patches; from Lenovo Companion updates following are out of date/have not been installed - Intel Rapid Storage driver; Lenovo SSD Fw Upd Tool; Intel Mgmt Engine 11.6 Fw, Lenovo APS; Realtek Audio. (Latter fails to install). Factory SanDisk 128G in mine. Happy to test, provide more info if anyone reaches out 1:1.

tovodeverett
Paper Tape
Posts: 2
Registered: ‎06-13-2017
Location: US
Views: 6,210
Message 4 of 10

Re: ThinkPad T470s BIOS bug - WOL and Thunderbolt 3

I have to say I am impressed with the fast response.  I was a bit disappointed to hear from phone support that the only submission channel for reporting BIOS and/or driver issues was via the forums - I figured I'd post here and be lucky if anyone actually noticed.  Given the speed of the response (and assuming you're successful in getting my report passed along to the BIOS team), I'm pretty happy!  It's always frustrating to go to the work of pinning down a bug's behavior as precisely as possible and then documenting it, only to discover I can't get it to the right team, so I'm glad that wasn't the case this time.

 

Obviously I have a workaround for the indefinite future.  I only disable WOL because I think of it as a hardening step, but it's not like it's very much of an attack vector since I always adjust the Network Boot setting to point to the hard drive.

 

I didn't realize the Security settings are always left alone by loading defaults, but I guess that makes sense.  As long as it's intentional, that's fine with me.

Lenovo Staff
Lenovo Staff
Posts: 5,302
Registered: ‎10-29-2009
Location: NC
Views: 6,187
Message 5 of 10

Re: ThinkPad T470s BIOS bug - WOL and Thunderbolt 3

We were able to reproduce the issues related to Wake On LAN = Disabled:

1.  hang (spinning dots) while boot on battery

2.  thunderbolt device shown in Device Manager even when thunderbolt port is disabled

 

BIOS engineer is currently investigating these 2 issues.  Thank you for your problem report!

Flappy
Fanfold Paper
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎08-13-2017
Location: US
Views: 5,309
Message 6 of 10

Re: ThinkPad T470s BIOS bug - WOL and Thunderbolt 3

What's the CPU you chose for your t470s ?
drrossum
Blue Screen Again
Posts: 12
Registered: ‎04-02-2016
Location: US
Views: 4,488
Message 7 of 10

Re: ThinkPad T470s BIOS bug - WOL and Thunderbolt 3

Has this issue been fixed in the meantime? I don't see this fix mentioned anywhere in the "summary of changes" for recent BIOS versions.
Lenovo Staff
Lenovo Staff
Posts: 5,302
Registered: ‎10-29-2009
Location: NC
Views: 4,463
Message 8 of 10

Re: ThinkPad T470s BIOS bug - WOL and Thunderbolt 3

This issue should be fixed in the latest T470s BIOS package 1.19

https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/us/en/products/LAPTOPS-AND-NETBOOKS/THINKPAD-T-SERIES-LAPTOPS/THINKPAD-...

 

I did not test it myself to confirm the fix, but this is the information I got from BIOS team.

drrossum
Blue Screen Again
Posts: 12
Registered: ‎04-02-2016
Location: US
Views: 4,444
Message 9 of 10

Re: ThinkPad T470s BIOS bug - WOL and Thunderbolt 3

Thanks for the quick reply! In the BIOS readme, was the following item the fix related to the bug we were seeing? - (Fix) Fixed an issue where ethernet is unstable when network boot was tried before Windows boot. The other items seem to be unrelated. In that case, it seems that moving the network down in the boot order should be an alternative to the WOL workaround described in the OP. That is worth a try (at least for people that want to avoid experimenting with irreversible BIOS upgrades).
Lenovo Staff
Lenovo Staff
Posts: 5,302
Registered: ‎10-29-2009
Location: NC
Views: 4,416
Message 10 of 10

Re: ThinkPad T470s BIOS bug - WOL and Thunderbolt 3


@drrossum wrote:
Thanks for the quick reply! In the BIOS readme, was the following item the fix related to the bug we were seeing? - (Fix) Fixed an issue where ethernet is unstable when network boot was tried before Windows boot. The other items seem to be unrelated. In that case, it seems that moving the network down in the boot order should be an alternative to the WOL workaround described in the OP. That is worth a try (at least for people that want to avoid experimenting with irreversible BIOS upgrades).

That is a different issue.  The issue of this thread is not mentioned in the readme (I don't know why).  However I just tested the latest BIOS on my own T470s here, with Wake On LAN disabled in BIOS setup, and I confirmed the issue is fixed.

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