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38 Posts

01-05-2009

USA

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Re: t61 does not operate at SATA-II speeds?!

2009-02-23, 18:05 PM

Mark ,

in the spirit of the forum would've been letting current/future T/R/X 6xx owners know that they shouldn't waste
their money and buy SSDs faster than 100 MB/s, for the ultrabay and faster than 1.5 Gb/s on the main drive.
Rather than cryptic 'official statement' about "SATA data rates", which is obviously not helpful to simple users,
since they continue (what a drag) to buy fast SSD drives - this really creates "snowball effect".
And apologizing to current owners to let them down would probably help - since there are suprisingly
many, who feel really cheated, despite the fact they can read laptop specifications rather well :)

Thank you much letting me express my point - kind of shows why we live in America, not in China,
for example.

 

Good thing that First Amendment guarantees your freedom of speech, as long as servers located on US soil

(and I believe they are ). Which means that Constitution supersedes any "message boards rules of Lenovo" ,

(spoke to my lawyer about this one). 

 

And, good "joke" about " ..Last ;)) " post - made me laugh a bit :) 

 

Sincerely,
Kotovsky7.

Message Edited by kotovsky7 on 02-25-2009 10:51 AM
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15 Posts

02-23-2009

new jersey

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Re: t61 does not operate at SATA-II speeds?!

2009-02-23, 18:24 PM
Mark, I have a T60p that I purchased an Intel X25 80gb to uprade the storage. The T60p (200783U) uses the ICH7 chipset that the Tabook listed as having a 100gb sata150 drive and under architecture in the Tabook it specs the ICH7 as having sata300. I believed at the time I purchased my T60p that the 100gb hard drive was sata150 and that the chipset supported sata300. I believe at that time there were no sata300 hard drives available. I mention this as sata300 was a requirement I insisted on before purchasing the T60p. Based on what I read in the Tabook I called Lenovo before I purchasing to question that the T60p had sata300 support and it was confirmed by the salesperson. Therefore I believe that the Tabook specs state sata300 support. From your latest response I believe my T60p will never fully utilize the X25. I accept this outcome as there appears to no easy remedy for it but I would like to know exactly what they did to disable sata300. What software and hardware changes were made? I have use thinkpads for past decade and this is the first time I have been disappointed.
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14 Posts

02-23-2009

Germany

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  • Message 83 of 254

Re: t61 does not operate at SATA-II speeds?!

2009-02-23, 18:29 PM

@Mark,

 

first of all thanks for your response and arrangement. Sorry, I misinterpreted your post, so think you would like to say that T61p with SantaRosa will not be able to go SATAII(300) restricted by physics design. I called my Lenovo dealer and asked for the possibility to swap the T61p back (just 1 week old) and buy instead a other one. So my question, is there a Notebook from Lenovo available which can use SATAII and support the Intel X25-E with full 200MByte/s? How I understand (maybe not right) have the W500 with Montevina Chipset a direct SATA interface and can support SATAII, but this function is currently denied by the BIOS, right?

Second reason is that I also still fighting with some BSoD when I run my OS on a Hard Drive mounted in the Ultra Bay. I installed all AHCI driver and Chipset driver correctly and still it happened intermittent. Also Acronis TrueImage11 sometimes could not read from HDD in UltraBay. Is this because of the internal PATA to SATA converter?

Third reason why I would like to give the T61p back is, that after I installed FX570M driver I realized that the GPU has only 64bit interface and 128MB NVRAM instead of 128Bit/256MB. Found out later on that this is normal on 14" models and only the widescreen models which are larger have 128Bit/256MB. But this was my own mistake and had could prevented if I had joined the forum earlier.

 

Regards, Uwe

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8095 Posts

11-19-2007

United States of America

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  • Message 84 of 254

Re: t61 does not operate at SATA-II speeds?!

2009-02-23, 18:50 PM

T61p_user,

 

As I understand it, the Montevinas (T400/T500, etc) are enabled in BIOS and capable at a chipset level of the higher speeds, but Lenovo media is presently operating at 150Gb/s rate.   I believe members have seen 200-230 MB/s data rates with OEM SSD (depending on benchmark) media installed in these devices.

 

I would suggest doing a couple searches on this forum as well as ThinkPads.com to hear from others who have tried this first hand.  If you are within the return window for your business partner, it might certainly be a good thing to look into - trading the T61p toward a Montevina system if you are going to install the Intell SSD.

 

All,

 

Other responses - duly noted.  I'm not sure what else I can add in response to them today...

 

Mark

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8 Posts

02-18-2009

Austin, TX

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Re: t61 does not operate at SATA-II speeds?!

2009-02-23, 19:03 PM

Not only does tabook specify 3.0 Gb/s sata for Santa Rosa thinkpads, it even lists 3.0 Gb/s drives as available upgrades for them.

 

I've highlighted both on this page. http://ryanclark.net/tabook_excerpt.gif

 

I don't really care about bay storage, but I would like my thinkpad to perform to its specification.

 

Might a fix be possible for users willing to sacrifice bay storage?  Like a BIOS setting to choose between "SATA 300 mode" and "Bay-Drive-Compatible mode"?

Message Edited by RyanClark on 02-23-2009 01:33 PM
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15 Posts

02-23-2009

new jersey

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Re: t61 does not operate at SATA-II speeds?!

2009-02-23, 19:17 PM
T60p_user, My mom has a T400 and it does sata300. I benched my intel x25 on her T400 with Sandra and Everest Utilites, it read at 235
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5 Posts

02-23-2009

Turkey

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  • Message 87 of 254

Re: t61 does not operate at SATA-II speeds?!

2009-02-23, 20:03 PM
well, this really sucks. I have a T60 at work. I went out and bought a T61 myself, hoping to pop in an SSD next time I travel to the US, possibly may, since they (like thinkpad laptops) are quite expensive here. So I have basically paid over 2500 USD for a laptop from which I should not really expect much of a performance using SSD. Guess what this tells about lenovo.......
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29 Posts

08-29-2008

Australia

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Re: t61 does not operate at SATA-II speeds?!

2009-02-23, 20:47 PM

Mark_Lenovo wrote:

All,

 

I've shared the official response I received from engineering, and can ask for some clarifications as you wish, but what has been impressed upon me in all of the internal discussions I've had thus far is that it's more than just a bios setting change to allow 3Gb/s data transfer rates on the Lenovo Santa Rosa based systems.

 

With regard to what was written in the tabook, I think we have to read the entire document.  I've seen the passage which refers to the ICH8 chip and 3Gb/s specs, and there is also a passage further down in the storage section of the same document that notes 1.5Gb/s with the drives listed with the system.

 

With regard to SATA II - I believe the term refers to the overall spec, and not just the sub element - the ability to transfer at 3Gb/s.  SATA II is not necessarily synonymous automatically with 3Gb/s transfer rates, although people do tend to treat it that way conversationally.  As such a system could support some of the other elements of SATA II even through the 3Gb/s data rate is not available.

 

JKetzetera,

 

Well reasoned questions - I asked that myself as well - why can't one channel run at 3 Gb/sec and the other channel for the ultrabay remain at 1.5 Gb/s? The answers provided to this point were included in my original response. I can ask for more details and see what can be released here.

 

 

 


Thank you for your response. Unfortunately, I do not seem to have expressed myself clearly enough though.

 

My question was not why the main bay cannot run 3Gb/sec and the Ultrabay remain at 1.5Gb/s.

 

The question was why the main bay is affected at all (speed wise) by any restrictions (if any) aimed at the Ultrabay, since the Ultrabay is NOT connected to a SATA port, but to a PATA port (most likely running at 133MB/sec).

 

Since the Ultrabay is not even connected to the same interface type (SATA vs PATA), why is the main bay SATA port being throttled at all?

 

Another user here offered the explanation that it was due to a limitation in the Intel chipset used. Alledgedly, the Intel chipset (depsite being specified to run the SATA-ports at 3Gb/sec speed) was unable to handle both PATA and SATA traffic reliably unless the SATA traffic was throttled down to 1.5Gb/sec. Is this correct?

Message Edited by jketzetera on 02-23-2009 12:52 PM
Message Edited by jketzetera on 02-23-2009 12:53 PM
Message Edited by jketzetera on 02-23-2009 12:54 PM
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38 Posts

01-05-2009

USA

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Re: t61 does not operate at SATA-II speeds?!

2009-02-23, 20:53 PM

Ryan,

 

actually, it seems as good and cheap solution :

 

1. If possible, set SATA-to-PATA conversion chip off, to let SATA signal through on Ultrabay, and move speed up to SATA-II speed through bios update.

 

2. Ship T/R/X6x-series compatible SATA-I or SATA-II dvd-rom to affected customers.

 

 Of course, if it is possible to make the conversion chip work in such way.

 

Message Edited by kotovsky7 on 02-23-2009 12:55 PM
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29 Posts

08-29-2008

Australia

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Re: t61 does not operate at SATA-II speeds?!

2009-02-23, 23:18 PM

Kotovsky7 and Ryan,

 

If Lenovo's throttling of the main bay SATA-port speed to 1.5Gb/s is due to instabilities with the Intel chipset when running both SATA and PATA channels on the chipset, then the only possible BIOS fix that would enable 3.0Gb/s on the main bay SATA-port would be a fix where the Ultrabay is disabled.

 

However, even this type of fix is preferable to no fix at all, as it would allow power users to selectively switch their system to "high-performance" mode at will.

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