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17 Posts

12-19-2007

Seattle, WA

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Re: T61P Graphic problems--random shut down, BSOD, Crash

2007-12-20, 4:59 AM
Stonie,
Do you have Robson (Turbomemory) on the system? If so, disable it, and see if that helps. Also, did you perform all the driver/firmware updates from Windowsupdate and Lenovo site? You can't assume that stuff is up to date, even if you just received it.
 
If none of that works, call it in for service, and request the system board be swapped, or better yet, request a new system. A system failing within 24 hours is considered DOA, and you would be well within your rights.
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117 Posts

12-05-2007

Arizona, USA

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Re: T61P Graphic problems--random shut down, BSOD, Crash

2007-12-20, 6:21 AM
Stonie, the laptop powering off while gaming can be due to more than one problem.
 
If you can, please try removing 1 of your memory sticks then see if the issue keeps happening.

If removing 1 stick of RAM makes the problem stop, you know you have the same problem as others in the thread.
 
HOWEVER if removing 1 stick of RAM does not solve the problem for you, then you most likely have a different problem.  For example, if the GPU heatsink is not making good enough contact with the GPU, the GPU will overheat and power off the machine.  This is by design to keep it from burning up.

It's nice if you can try removing 1 stick of RAM just to find out for sure which problem you have.  It's the easiest way to find out if you have THE graphics problem this thread is about, or if you have some other problem.  If you find out the 1 memory stick trick works, then you can just start working on getting your laptop repaired, because nothing else is going to help you.
 
Proteus, regarding turbo memory, I agree he should make sure he has the latest drivers, but turbo memory is irrelevant.  This has been well tested by now.  In my case, my original laptop had turbo memory with the latest turbo memory drivers, and Vista x64 like you.  You said "What I DO see is that in certain games, I'll get the nvdlkrm driver has encountered an error and restarted succesfully...and the game will crash".  Well that's exactly the error I got when I had all the latest drivers and latest bios.  Lenovo sent me a loaner laptop which DID NOT have turbo memory but still had Vista 64 bit.  With the latest drivers, I would get this same error.  However, when Lenovo sent me a new laptop to replace the old one, the NEW laptop no longer had this error.  Same hard drive, same drivers, same BIOS, same RAM, but other than that, new laptop. 
 
There are a bunch of us now who got a new motherboard and the problem was gone.  New motherboard or entire new laptop fixes the problem.  Nothing else so far has fixed it for anyone that I have heard of.  I tried everything you guys have tried.  Turbo memory is irrelevant.  OS doesn't matter, the issue will affect any OS.  Different versions of video driver or BIOS have some effect on how often the error happens or what the exact error message is, but they do not solve the problem completely.  I'm not trying to be rude, it's just that people keep suggesting the same tired old ideas over and over that have already been tried and discarded because they don't fix the problem.  If it was that simple there would be a fix by now.  If people would read back through the thread history here and on Thinkpads.com or notebookreview.com they would see that all these different drivers and BIOS and settings haven't solved the problem for anyone, so it's pretty easy to see this is a hardware issue that only goes away when they replace your motherboard.  Unless you get really unlucky and they put another bad motherboard in there!  Most people have had great results though from a motherboard swap.  You can spend a lot of time re-inventing the wheel so to speak, or you can learn from other people's experience and go straight for the solution... a repair at the depot for a new motherboard.
 
I'm not trying to discourage new ideas to try, it's just that these ideas aren't new.  If people are going to make suggestions it would be nice if they were new suggestions that haven't already been tried in the past.  The thread gets longer and longer and more cluttered when people keep posting the same old ideas that don't work over and over.
 
Some of you guys could have sent your laptop in and gotten it back by now fixed.  I feel bad for you spending so much time trying to fix this issue.

P.S. - This might change if Lenovo figures out some other way to fix the problem, but at this point they do not have a fix other than replacing the motherboard.  They apparently don't know yet what exactly the problem is but it's something on the motherboard or the GPU which is attached to the motherboard, because new motherboards have fixed the problem for a bunch of us.  From what I hear, they are looking into the problem to find out more about it and pinpoint what exactly is going on.  You can wait for them to figure this out, if it would make you feel better, in the future they might learn more about the issue and set up a quicker process to fix it.  Or you can just get your laptop repaired and not worry about it.

Lenovo has not discouraged anyone from having their laptop repaired.  They have been perfectly willing to replace motherboards and fix the problem for people.  Don't forget that.  They were very helpful when I had this problem and got me back up and running, they really took care of things.

Message Edited by Hellbore on 12-19-2007 11:53 PM
T61p, T7800 CPU, Nvidia Quadro FX 570M GPU, WSXGA+ LDC, 4GB RAM, 200GB HDD, Intel 4965AGN wireless, 1GB Intel Turbo Memory, Vista Business 64bit
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28 Posts

12-20-2007

UK

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  • Message 63 of 938

Re: T61P Graphic problems--random shut down, BSOD, Crash

2007-12-20, 7:11 AM
Mark,
 
Both turning off and the game freezing up and spitting out graphic artifacts on the screen have happened on my TP .
 
I have the T61p 6459 with original 1G x 2 configuration from lenovo which have 2 rows of chip on each side produced by Hy.
 
It shutdown in burn in and Cysis. And freezing in Cysis and Warcraft III (which is not intensive 3D I guess?).
 
Both the 2.07 bios and the 1.26 bios I have tried have no different.
 
I am now in UK and could not have any warranty at all. I really hope it could be fixed through bios or firmware update. Thank you.


Message Edited by raymentchen on 12-19-2007 11:15 PM

Message Edited by raymentchen on 12-19-2007 11:16 PM
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13 Posts

12-19-2007

Germany

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  • Message 64 of 938

Re: T61P Graphic problems--random shut down, BSOD, Crash

2007-12-20, 8:39 AM
Guys, thank to you all for the fast replies. I will keep investigating this issue over the holidays and continue posting here.
 
@proteus: Yes I have Robson installed and activated. But I think this should be no problem as the newest drivers are installed. (1.0.1.1004)
 
@Hellbore: I will remove 1 Stick as soon as I have time... The system is totally up-to-date with all drivers. I switched back from the MS updated Quadro drivers to the original Lenovo ones (7.15.11.145), as I read on the Nvidia page that Quadro support is only performed by lenovo (because of non-standard power savings stuff, etc...). Vista is also up-to-date. I updated this machine for several hours when I recieved it.
 
Btw. I never had any BSOD. It always just powers down. And I would also say that Windows Vista Dreamscene is no 3D killer app pushing the hardware to the limits.
If it should turn out to be a defective heatsink - is there a way for me to repair this, or do I need to send the TP to Lenovo anyway?
 
Thanks for all your support.
 
Greetings from freezing Munich, BY
 
st.
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117 Posts

12-05-2007

Arizona, USA

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  • Message 65 of 938

Re: T61P Graphic problems--random shut down, BSOD, Crash

2007-12-20, 10:09 AM
Stonie, you might be lucky enough to have a different, simpler problem.  I guess we will find out after you remove 1 memory stick.  If you have ONLY had powering off, not crashes or BSOD's, you might simply have a bad connection between the heatsink and GPU.  The GPU can overheat and power off the system for thermal protection.  This was happening on another T61P I worked on, reseating the heatsink and applying new thermal compound fixed it in that case.  Just a thought.
T61p, T7800 CPU, Nvidia Quadro FX 570M GPU, WSXGA+ LDC, 4GB RAM, 200GB HDD, Intel 4965AGN wireless, 1GB Intel Turbo Memory, Vista Business 64bit
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8095 Posts

11-19-2007

United States of America

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  • Message 66 of 938

Re: T61P Graphic problems--random shut down, BSOD, Crash

2007-12-20, 14:30 PM
Hellbore,
 
Thanks - really good to have your help in this, you have one of the longest "memories" of all that has been tried so far and what were the results.
 
Stonnie,
 
I suggested in my post on page 5 of this thread, we are seeing two different symtoms expressed by those in these threads.  One symtom is the power off, and the other symtom results in BSOD, graphic artifacts, or freezing of the app.   I was trying to split these two issues apart and isolate them with this group's help.   One member had reporting that the shut down can be avoided by disabling the dual core function.   I'm looking for others like yourself that have this system to test that out specifically, in addition to the ram config.  
 
Could you test this out and let us know here?
 
For those that experience the shut down:
    • Does the shut down occur in all games (and other apps like 3Dmark, burn in, PC Doctor 5) or specific ones?
    • If you have the shut down symptom, try going into the BIOS and selecting single core operation.
    • To disable multicore processing go into BIOS - Config - CPU - Core Multi-processing and change from Enabled to Disabled.
    • Re-run the game or application as single core and note the result.


Message Edited by Mark_Lenovo on 12-20-2007 06:33 AM
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17 Posts

12-19-2007

Seattle, WA

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  • Message 67 of 938

Re: T61P Graphic problems--random shut down, BSOD, Crash

2007-12-20, 16:04 PM
Stonie,
The Lenovo 1.0.1.1004 Robson drivers are unfortunately old, and quite unstable, and will cause many intermittent hangs and bluescreens. There is a specific, serious bug with Readydrive specifically, with the "hybrid disk power savings mode" that has been confirmed by Intel. To disable temporarily, go into "Intel Turbo memory" deselect "readydisk" and reboot. This problem is NOT the same as the dual DIMM/3D gaming issues others are reporting, but it does cause random BSOD and hangs.
 
Also..does this happen when you are plugged in, with the "maximum performance" option selected?


Message Edited by proteus on 12-20-2007 08:07 AM
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13 Posts

12-19-2007

Germany

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  • Message 68 of 938

Re: T61P Graphic problems--random shut down, BSOD, Crash

2007-12-20, 22:21 PM
Hi all,
 
ok here's my update. The conclusion comes first: I also have the 2 DIMM bug.
 
Ok that's what I did:
 

@Mark: First I want to confirm, that I never had a BSOD. The only symptom I get is power down.

  • Does the shut down occur in all games: I only tried ETQW since already this experience is really frustating... But I can confirm that it also occurs when enabling a Windows Vista DreamScene.
  • I also run the pc doctor 5 grafik and display tests - they went fine, no problems at all. I am starting to believe the problem consists of some specific 3D grafic commands used mostly in games. This presumption is strengthend due to the DreamScene problem. MS Vista DreamScene is no killer app. There is no real penetration of the hardware when enabling it - it hardly makes a good situated machine yawn....
  • I then followed your advise to disable the second core. Same thing. DreamScene and ETQW make the TP power down after 10 sec.
  • I also was in touch with lenovo support today. This is what we also tried without success:
    • Bios: Setting PCI IRQ Allocation to AUTO
    • Bios: Setting VGA Boot Device to Thinkpad LCD, setting the VGA from internal to PCI-Express
    • Windows: Installing different driver version from a clean removed driver situation. I have to remark, that I noticed when using very new modded Geforce drivers, the power down came with a great delay. I got ETQW running for 5 min before power down.

@proteus: Since I never had a BSOD - in fact the machine runs rock stable except of the problems described above -I skipped disabling the robson chip. If problems still occur, this is the first thing I will try.

@hellbore: thanks for your prayers. I am afraid they have not been answered. Please read on below:

@all: So after checking all this, I finally opened my TP, removed the second DIMM from the memory bank. Rebooted. Activated DreamScene and fired up ETQW. ETQW runs fine. I did a real hard stress test (high setting - insane resolution). The TP runs fine.  After half an hour I stopped the test and returned to the desktop where my DreamScene is still running while I am typing this. With the second bank occupied this would have made my TP power down in less then 5 sec.....

So, I am afraid it can only be a problem when having both memory banks occupied. I will return my TP after the holidays for a MB replacement. The very friendly lenovo employee guaranteed me that I will have it replaced without problems. Well that's a start ;)

I will keep on testing the machine during holidays - then I can also try crysis, anno 1701, quake 4, ... If problems still occur I will post them here.

Thanks to all for your support. I only have been in the lenovo community since 1 day, but already recieved great feedback. That reminds me of a community associated with a very fast penguine ;)

Cheers, all will be good in the end!!!

Greeting from Bavaria!

St.

UPDATE: @andrea - since I didn't get a registration yet on thinkpadforums I will post my MB serial here first: VF19X7BK24P



Message Edited by stonie on 12-20-2007 03:07 PM
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56 Posts

12-05-2007

Bristol, UK

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  • Message 69 of 938

Re: T61P Graphic problems--random shut down, BSOD, Crash

2007-12-20, 22:43 PM
Hi stonie,
 
would you post your motherboard serial number here:
 
we are trying to figure out if there is a pattern... so far everyone with a VF19X7 one is experiencing the same issues
 
thanks
andrea
T61p - 15.4" - T7700 - FX 570M 256MB - 4GB RAM - ST916023AS - 4965AGN - BT - FPR - 9 cell - Vista Ult. x86
T21p - 14" - PIII 850MHz - S3 Savage/IX 8MB - 512MB RAM - 100GB 7200rpm - WinXP x86
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28 Posts

12-20-2007

UK

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  • Message 70 of 938

Re: T61P Graphic problems--random shut down, BSOD, Crash

2007-12-21, 11:54 AM
I have the graphic problem. And my System Board Serial Number is VF19Y7AP1KV.
 
And I found that if I could recover from the freezing game, the 4965agn were disconected.
 
Also in other forum, peoeple pointed out that the problem might caused by the GPU trying to use turbocache.  


Message Edited by raymentchen on 12-21-2007 04:02 AM
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