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ThinkPad 10 Generation 2 (Type 20E3, 20E4) - Problem with Sierra Wireless EM7345 GNSS data

2016-05-29, 17:26 PM

Hello everybody,

we have a problem receiving/reading the GPS data from the GNSS sensor in our ThinkPad10 tablet.

We are using a program for forestry logging which needs the GPS data.
The program is working generally well with tablets which have a Broadcom 4752 sensor, which is obviously a very common sensor. There is no problem with Windows 10, no difference 64 or 32 bit version, no difference which build, original 10240 or 1511 from November'15, no difference home or pro version.
Acc. to the software producer the data are read in the same way as the Microsoft sensordiagnostictool.exe (sdt) does. This tool is part of the Windows SDK.

Now our problem:

The Thinkpad 10 G2 has -unfortunately- a Sierra Wireless EM 7345 sensor. We are using Win 10 64 bit pro version.
There the sdt and the forestry application is working only with the Windows build 10240. Even with this sometimes after startup it takes very long until the first gnss data are read (despite there is a WAN connection available).
With build 1511 the forestry program is not working and when we test with the sdt, it is crashing with error 1000 in kernelbase.dll.
So in our opinion this is a driver and/or firmware problem.
Driver version: 15.12.10223.1 with date 2015-12-03
Firmware version: 01.1529.05
PS: Unfortunately Lenovo is also very weak here, as the newest driver updates include now older firmware versions and drivers compared to previous updates. This was already discussed in the forum.

Does anyone have similar experiences and preferable a solution for this issue?

Many thanks in advance for your assistance.

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2030 Posts

11-28-2007

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Re: ThinkPad 10 Generation 2 (Type 20E3, 20E4) - Problem with Sierra Wireless EM7345 GNSS data

2016-06-01, 10:35 AM

This is typical issue of GPS that are included in WWAN module. Some WWAN modules have an extra GPS antenna connector but this is not the case of EM7345.

 

I have two WWAN modues with GPS, Ericsson F5521gw in ThinkPad X220 and Sierra Wireless EM7345 in ThinkPad 8 tablet. Both of them have very bad GPS reception compared to a Lumia Windows 10 Mobile phone tested in the same location. As you already use the Sensor Diagnostic Tool from Windows SDK I don't have any other advice because it provides all information available. I don't think the bad GPS reception is a driver issue (while I agree the driver/firmware quality is subpar), it is more like a hardware design limitation.

 

As for the error with build 1511, do you have a stack trace or Event Log error report ? My opinion is that Lenovo has actually never tested the EM7345 drivers on Windows 10 other than "can be installed without an error" :smileyfrustrated:

__________________________________
ThinkPad (1992 - 2012): R51, X31, X220, Tablet 8.
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6 Posts

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Re: ThinkPad 10 Generation 2 (Type 20E3, 20E4) - Problem with Sierra Wireless EM7345 GNSS data

2016-06-02, 15:30 PM

Dear Puppy,

thank you for your answer. I read in the past already a lot of your excellent and helpful posts related EM7345, also in the Sierra Wireless forum. Congratulation!


I am not happy to hear that in your opinion the poor signal reception is caused by the hardware design of the module.

We use the tablet in a truck, and it has to be switched on the whole day. When the driver for example starts or finishes loading he has to send via program a message which includes automatically the current position.

We noticed: It sometimes takes very long in the morning to get the 'first signal data'. But once data are received, the signal is normally not lost the whole day.


I agree with you regarding the the driver testing by Lenovo. But I do not want to give up, the quality of the driver/firmware is bad! But at the moment I have no idea how to place the information at Lenovo, so that something happens.

With the current situation the tablet is not really usable for our purpose.


Find enclosed some screenshots from the eventvwr when you start Microsoft sdt with build 1511. (We reverted in the meantime to build 10240).

 

Best Regards

jo15

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Re: ThinkPad 10 Generation 2 (Type 20E3, 20E4) - Problem with Sierra Wireless EM7345 GNSS data

2016-06-02, 16:25 PM

I understand you'd like to resolve it using current hardware setup. The error is in ISensor.GetID method, unfortunately it didn't log the result code. We can assume it is the "The sensor driver did not provide a sensor ID".

 

I am not sure whether the EM7345 device is still supported by Lenovo, especially in Windows 10. It has been replaced with EM7455 in recent devices. Did it work in the 1511 build in other applications like Maps etc ? Was it visible in Device Manager ?

 

Have you tried to use the recent software package GTWO45WW ? There is updated GPS driver 15.12.10223.1 compared to 15.5.10222.1 in GTWO42WW. We know the mobile connection firmware is broken there but the GPS driver itself could be better. If you need both latest GPS driver and working mobile Internet connection you would have to combine the 1529.05 firmware file from older software package GTWO42WW (it can be extracted by 7Zip) and GPS driver from the GTWO45WW one.

__________________________________
ThinkPad (1992 - 2012): R51, X31, X220, Tablet 8.
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Re: ThinkPad 10 Generation 2 (Type 20E3, 20E4) - Problem with Sierra Wireless EM7345 GNSS data

2016-06-02, 19:43 PM

Thank you for your assistance.
I agree, I am also not sure, whether they still support it, or just want to sale it. :smileyhappy:
No seriously: There is a Sierra Wireless driver for Win 10 64bit at Lenove homepage.
http://support.lenovo.com/at/de/products/Tablets/ThinkPad-Tablet-Series/ThinkPad-10-20E3-20E4?linkTrack=Homepage:Body_Browse%20Products|Sub-Series%20Selected&beta=false
With the Micorsoft maps it worked with build 1511. Other apps I did not test. Device manager shows everything correct.

Regarding the Sensor_ID: I have a sdt log in xml, there I find a ""SENSOR_PROPERTY_PERSISTENT_UNIQUE_ID". But at this time signal reception was working and it was build 10240.

I tried the GTWO45WW, even I read your and Martins post in the forum before. I made the same experience. So I also reverted to GTWO42WW which has the 'older' driver 15.5.10222.1. But with update driver functionality in device manager the 'current' 15.12.10223.1 is found and installed automatically.
But the problem is not solved.

Regarding 1511 I also had the assumption that it is coming from Microsoft. I thought first it is a general Microsoft issue, that the old 'sdt method' is generally not working starting with build 1511.
See here:
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/hh406684%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
Win 8.1
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/hh780319%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
Win 10
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/9n957020%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
GNSS
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/dn917815%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
But the fact that -accordign to supplier of the forestry logging software- everything is fine with with Broadcom 4752 in build 1511, does not confirm this assumption.

 

When I look at the sdt, the sensor says very often state 'Initializing'. So you are right, hardware design is not good. But I think there is another issue, there is some 'bug', sometimes there is an error 'No data', and then it has difficulties to start search for a signal again.

So in my opinion it is still also a driver and/or firmware issue.

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  • Message 6 of 9

Re: ThinkPad 10 Generation 2 (Type 20E3, 20E4) - Problem with Sierra Wireless EM7345 GNSS data

2016-06-02, 21:54 PM

The Sensor API was introduced in Windows 7. To my experience Microsoft always care about the API backward compatibility so I would assume it still works (while might be outdated) in latest Windows version. Although it would be better to confirm the SDT (and thus its API) works with that Broadcom 4752 GPS on build 1511.

 

Yes, the Initializing state means a lost signal and it is quite frequent.

 

As for the driver issue in build 1511, there is no official way of bug reporting. Just to "scream enough" in forums hoping someone notice that :smileyfrustrated: You can also try that Sierra Wireless forum but the EM7345 is rather experiment because it was designed specifically for Lenovo using Intel chipset so there is no support either.

 

__________________________________
ThinkPad (1992 - 2012): R51, X31, X220, Tablet 8.
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Re: ThinkPad 10 Generation 2 (Type 20E3, 20E4) - Problem with Sierra Wireless EM7345 GNSS data

2016-06-04, 13:01 PM

The software supplier confirmed me that the SDT is working with Broadcom 4752 on build 1511. They tested it with a Samsung Galaxy TabPro S.
model: S W708N - Windows 10 Pro - 64Bit - Version 1511 (Build 10586.218)
GPS: Broadcom GNSS 4752 Geolocation Sensor (Version 20.24.8864.18 - 24.12.2015)

I also had the chance to see sometime ago a Yoga2, which has also a Broadcom 4752. But it was build 10240.
There I noticed an additional difference between the Sierra and Broadcom driver.
The Sierra stops searching after some time and says "No data". And this is of course a big problem for the software which we use. So it never gets a signal.
So I installed a workaround: I put the SDT into Autostart, and the driver marks the GNSS sensor after startup. So it does not stop searching. Everyone can find this funny or crazy, but it works better this way. The remaining problem is, that it sometimes takes very long in the morning to get the first signal, despite it is in the same area and good weather. As you said, no antenna.

But this is just a workaround and we have also no upgrade possibility to newer builds of Windows 10!
When the Broadcom looses the signal and switches to Initializing, the driver continues permanently trying to get a signal and to become "Ready".

I read your posts in Sierra Wireless Forum. The answers they gave you, were no good information for us.
So I think for the moment we can only wait and hope. But I am very disappointed by Lenovo!

Many thanks for your assistance.

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  • Message 8 of 9

Re: ThinkPad 10 Generation 2 (Type 20E3, 20E4) - Problem with Sierra Wireless EM7345 GNSS data

2016-06-04, 20:34 PM

wrote:

The software supplier confirmed me that the SDT is working with Broadcom 4752 on build 1511. They tested it with a Samsung Galaxy TabPro S.
model: S W708N - Windows 10 Pro - 64Bit - Version 1511 (Build 10586.218)
GPS: Broadcom GNSS 4752 Geolocation Sensor (Version 20.24.8864.18 - 24.12.2015)

This is very important because it confirms the "old" Windows 7 Sensor API still works with recent Windows 10 version, as expected.

 

 

__________________________________
ThinkPad (1992 - 2012): R51, X31, X220, Tablet 8.
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  • Message 9 of 9

Re: ThinkPad 10 Generation 2 (Type 20E3, 20E4) - Problem with Sierra Wireless EM7345 GNSS data

2016-06-05, 10:02 AM

For me it is now clear that this is a problem of the driver software and/or the firmware of the EM7345 module.
@Lenovo staff: When do you plan to resolve this problem? Thinkpad is a famous brand and as a manufacturer of equipment for the business use, you can not ignore such problems.

Please help your customers.

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