11-23-2011 05:51 PM
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11-23-2011 06:37 PM
Welcome to the forum!
As per MS's own guidelines, X40 is not deemed powerful enough to run Vista or W7, due to its outdated graphics chipset.
All of these machines are over five years old now and expecting support for an OS that is two releases behind the newest one that they were originally shipped with is rather optimistic - I know of no laptop manufacturer that provides that kind of support.
All of that said, trial and error is the only way to go, and find out what works and what doesn't. I do it with my older ThinkPads all the time.
11-24-2011 12:04 PM
Thank you for your reply. Your reply misses the point of my question.
I trusted Lenovo's persistent, "lowest cost of ownership" promise. Please remember that Lenovo promoted "lowest cost of ownership" as primary justification for premium price. When Lenovo breaches this persistent promise, Lenovo compromises the primary basis for its premium price.
To the extent you blindly accept a Microsoft suggestion that an X40 cannot run Vista or Windows 7, I am happy for you. In fact, the Microsoft guideline seems more marketing ruse than engineering guideline. True, the X40 (Intel 852/855 graphics) may not support Aero graphics. For me, Aero eye candy is not an essential, functional aspect of Vista, nor of Windows 7. For me, Aero eye candy is more marketing flash and consumer bling, than computer function. With both Vista and Windows 7, Aero is optional. Without Aero, my X40 runs just fine under Windows 7.
In fact, with Windows 7 and a SSD, my X40 runs remarkably better than when it was new: the useful life of my X40 is remarkably enhanced and extended.
George, to the extent you accept Microsoft marketing ploys over engineering reality--or, if you regard Aero as an essential aspect of computing--your perspective differs from mine. I respect your perspective. You miss the point of my question.
My problem is that I trusted Lenovo's persistent, "lowest cost of ownership" promise. Windows 7 with a SSD remarkably enhances X40 function, thereby extending useful life and reducing cost of ownership. I value ThinkVantage utilities as part of the "lowest cost of ownership" promise". When paying a premium price for Lenovo products, I trusted Lenovo's "lowest cost of ownership" promise.
When you suggest that I may experiment with different versions of ThinkVantage utilities to discover what may work, your well-intentioned suggestion seems remarkably unenlightened. If only it could be as you suggest. Except for my having done the "trial and error" as you thoughtfully suggest, I might believe as you.
If fact, it seems that Lenovo arbitrarily prevents many ThinkVantage utilities from running on an X40 under Windows 7. That is, many ThinkVantage utilities test for machine type and operating system during install, or during launch. Without regard for whether the ThinkVantage software may run just fine on an X40 under Windows 7, these arbitrary tests prohibit installation or launch.
George, I do not mind that these install-time or launch-time tests keep people from using ThinkVantage software on Toshiba or Dell computers. I object that these arbitrary tests keep me from exploring--via your suggested trial and error method--which version of a ThinkVantage utility may run on my X40 under Windows 7.
I would prefer that Lenovo test ThinkVantage software on a X40 under Windows 7; and that ThinkVantage software does not rely on Aero; and that Lenovo supports X40s under Windows 7. This support would honor Lenovo's persistent, "lowest cost of ownership" promise.
The de minimis cost of a X40 running Windows 7 could not be material for Lenovo. Moreover, if I can install Windows 7, sans Aero, on an X40--the computer on which I rely every day--surely Lenovo has the technical expertise to install Windows 7 on an X40. So .... why does Lenovo breach its persistent, "lowest cost of ownership" promise?
If Lenovo simply failed to test ThinkVantage software on an X40 under Windows 7, this breach of promise would disappointment me
To the extent Lenovo denies opportunity to discover--via trial and error--which ThinkVantage software may run on an X40 under Windows 7, I take umbrage. I feel offended. I feel that Lenovo has violated my trust. Why has Lenovo done this?
George, please forgive that my original post was not clear.
With your more recent machines, when Lenovo may arbitrarily keep you from what you have reasonably suggested for me: How may you feel?
When you have a perfectly good, updated Thinkpad .... and Lenovo arbitrarily compromises the function of your perfectly good, updated machine ... how may you feel?
Do I misunderstand some aspect of this matter? If so, please help clarify my thinking.
11-24-2011 12:35 PM
I love my ThinkPad X41 and the X40/X41 are classics.
In 2009 Lenovo announced the list of Windows 7 upgrade supported systems and the X40, introduced in 2004, is not on it. As George mentioned, the X40, introduced 5 years earlier, simply does not meet the Windows 7 requirements.
If low cost of ownership is your primary objective, stick to Windows XP.
If you really want to use Windows 7 on your X40, be prepared to do some research. I have my X41 running it smoothly, and it's perfect for email and web browsing. A couple of key things which helped were:
1. Upgrading the hard drive to an SSD.
2. Maxing the memory out to 2GB.
Search around and there's quite a bit of information about this.
Hope this helps!
11-24-2011 01:08 PM
Thank you for your reply.
I agree that X40/X41 Thinkpads are wonderful classics. I have updated my trusty X40 with a SSD and Windows 7 last year. As you found with your X41, my updated X40 runs better than when new .... except that some ThinkVantage utilities no longer install or function.
If Lenovo compromises its "lowest cost of ownership" promise because it does not wish to test Windows 7 versions of ThinkVantage software on an X40 running Windows 7, I am disappointed.
When the Win7 version of ThinkVantage utilities may run perfectly well on my Win7 X40--just as other Windows 7 software runs perfectly well on our updated ThinkPads--I take offense that Lenovo arbitrarily compromises the function of my updated X40, by denying Windows 7 ThinkVantage software to my X40. Similarly, Vista and XP versions may arbitrarily fail to install on my X40--not because the software will not work, but merely because Lenovo has not tested the software on an updated ThinkPad.
In other words, if Lenovo warns me that software is untested on a X40 running Windows 7, I can accept the risk of testing for myself. If Lenovo is too lazy to test ThinkVantage software on a X40 running Windows 7, I am disappointed. When Lenovo arbitrarily keeps me from accepting the risk of trying Windows 7 ThinkVantage software on my X40, I am offended.
When Lenovo arbitrarily keeps me from accepting the risk of untested software, Lenovo needlessly compromises the function of my perfectly good, updated ThinkPad. Why?
11-24-2011 02:20 PM
11-24-2011 02:52 PM - edited 11-25-2011 07:25 AM
windows 7, especially with SP1, should include most if not all of the drivers necessary for your X40 to function. since windows update would handle any subsequent upgrades, TVSU then becomes irrelevent.
besides, IBM never promised that future OSes would be supported indefinitely on the X40 platform. the fact that your seven-year-old piece of computer hardware is still alive and functioning puts it far beyond any TCO calculations.
with that said, what drivers are you having issues with installing on your X40? perhaps by knowing this the community can help find updates for what's missing and get you up and running.
11-24-2011 04:01 PM - edited 11-24-2011 04:02 PM
If Lenovo compromises its "lowest cost of ownership" promise...
Since you a putting such great weight on a specific phrase, would you please provide a citation for the IBM marketing material which provides the original context of this "promise".
11-24-2011 06:55 PM
Thank you for helpful replies.
As confirmed by others in these forums, and as confirmed in reply to this thread, X40/X41 ThinkPads work just fine under Windows 7, except for optional Aero graphics ... and ThinkVantage software.
My question is with ThinkVantage software, specifically Access Connections and System Update. I have not surveyed all ThinkVantage software. Yet, I have begun to realize that ThinkVantage software has seemed to "drop off" my machine, over time. With enhancements in Windows 7, ThinkVantage software may add less value under Windows 7, than under XP.
I rely on my Win7-SSD-updated X40 everyday, for a variety of tasks. Except for ThinkVantage software, I have encountered no problems. An SSD solves X40's greatest deficit. Windows 7 supports SSD better than XP or Vista. A Win7-SSD-updated X40 is a fine, functional machine: a potential credit to Lenovo's long-standing promise of lower total cost of ownership.
When ThinkVantage software installs or launches, the software generally tests for machine type and operating system. To the extent Lenovo arbitrarily decides that ThinkVantage software will not run on an X40 under Windows 7, the install or launch fails.
To the extent Bill is concerned with my emphasis on Lenovo's long-standing promise of lowest cost ownership, I just googled:
thinkpad "total cost of ownership" lower*
Google gave me about 3,720,000 hits, the most prominent from Lenovo and IBM.
When I googled:
(thinkpad OR IBM OR Lenovo) "total cost of ownership" lower*
Google gave me about 38,500,000 hits, most prominently from Lenovo and IBM.
If anyone failed to note that Lenovo promotes lower "total cost of ownership" to justify premium prices, maybe your favorite search engine can point you to Lenovo's long-standing promise, many times over.
To the extent Lenovo dishonors its promise for lower "total cost of ownership", I understand that Lenovo disclaims support for X40/X41 under Windows 7. When Lenovo fails to test Win7 ThinkVantage software on a Win7 X40, Lenovo could warn me, then let me bare the risk. We could report and discuss results here. Together, as a community, we could solve problems, as the Colonel referenced community problem solving in other forums.
When, Lenovo arbitrarily denies ThinkVantage software to Win7-updated X40/X41 ThinkPads, Lenovo gives us no opportunity to solve problems as a community.
To the extent Erik suggests that seven years is beyond any "cost of ownership" calculation: why?
Detroit conditioned Americans to believe that automobiles were obsolete after 1-3 years. Now, automobiles commonly last 7-12 years: Detroit collapsed. Notwithstanding that my X40 is only 6+ years old, if an updated Thinkpad remains useful, productive and functional for 7 years, why is this beyond any "cost of ownership" calculation?
Together with the vibrant ThinkPad community, I will work to resolve evolving problems as they may arise, if only Lenovo would honor its long-standing promise and give us reasonable opportunity.
With so much confirmation that Windows 7, sans Aero, runs just fine on X40/X41 ThinkPads, why do you think that Lenovo dishonors its long-standing promise of lowest "total cost of ownership"?
11-24-2011 07:15 PM
most businesses calculate TCO cycles for computer equipment purchases out to 5 years. this is standard across the industry. IBM and lenovo both offer warranty terms and system support out to 5 years maximum for this very reason. despite warranty and support dropping off after 5 years, lenovo still maintains an active driver matrix for older systems dating all the way back to thinkpad systems made in 1992.
regarding TCO calcs, this whitepaper from intel might be of some help: http://www.intel.com/content/dam/doc/white-paper/pc-upgrade-cycles-using-tco-determine-pc-upgrade-pa...
regarding thinkvantage software, there's nothing holding you back from installing or attempting to install it on older systems. however, support isn't guaranteed for systems older than 5 years.
as bill requested, if you can specifically point to an absolute resource stating where IBM explicitly promised support for the X40 past five years, please post a link to said resource. a generic google search isn't of much help when requesting specifics. remember, this is the case you're trying to make. it's up to you to prove it.