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Alzerha
Fanfold Paper
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎04-06-2019
Location: FR
Views: 1,656
Message 81 of 116

Re: Calling P1 and X1 Extreme users to update BIOS 1.19 - fan noise much better now!

I just had the same issue (a bit less) with my big boy Thinkpad P72. I'm a bit tired of Lenovo seriously. 

I just think there is other troubles in the Thinkpad.

I will try an last clean WIndows installation and will see it will change or not.

 

It will be perfect if someone could share the CPU  temperture / CPU fan graph from Aida64.

Because i think the only problem is the idle CPU temperature in idle going alone to 60°C...

surahman
SCSI Port
Posts: 113
Registered: ‎05-24-2017
Location: CA
Views: 1,633
Message 82 of 116

Re: Calling P1 and X1 Extreme users to update BIOS 1.19 - fan noise much better now!

For some reason, my ACPI drivers aren't reporting the fan speed which might be because of missing drivers due to windows reinstall. These are the systems temps coming out of a reboot after windows update on the battery:

WinUpdateBat.jpg

The system fans do kick on during boot and the machine does get a lot warmer whilst the battery is charging. I can't hear the fans now and the temperatures are a bit lower.

flyte
Fanfold Paper
Posts: 13
Registered: ‎12-02-2018
Location: CA
Views: 1,624
Message 83 of 116

Re: Calling P1 and X1 Extreme users to update BIOS 1.19 - fan noise much better now!

I have the same problem with fan RPM not being reporte din HWMonitor, HWInfo64, and CAM.. the only one that is able to report fan RPM speed is AIDA64, but trial is going to run out soon. Any way to get the other apps to pick up fan rpm? I have a clean Windows install and everything is up to date with Lenovo Vantage, so drivers should be to up date. 

 

As for constant spinning low RPM fan - thankfully I don't work in a silent bubble and the little noise wouldn't bother me. I do understand the battery concern, which I agree with. This is why my initial suggestion would have them on constantly if on AC and perhaps not when on battery, (or have the ability to toggle on demand somehow). 

 

As for more intensive workloads, (i.e.: gaming) - I am used to have the fans spin at full jet engine more when playing, for example, Fortnite, but there are often times where it slows down to a crawl. I suspect it is thermal throttling when this happens, but I haven't been able to see the telemetry while playing the game, (somehow there is a way to get the stats overlayed on top of the game.. but I haven't figured that out yet). In these cases, I bet the CPU is running north of 80 degrees for quite some times, probably peaking close to 100. I don't know if running at these temps for a such a long time is doing any damage or is something I need to be concerned of? 

 

Wouldn't mind hearing someone elses' experience when gaming on this laptop - I know it's not the best machine to do so on, but anyone else experience massive stuttering ?

surahman
SCSI Port
Posts: 113
Registered: ‎05-24-2017
Location: CA
Views: 1,617
Message 84 of 116

Re: Calling P1 and X1 Extreme users to update BIOS 1.19 - fan noise much better now!

I do use HWMonitor whenever there is something super demanding and I believe my peak temperatures have been around 70'c and rarely 80'c - I don't like the temperatures going above 60'c for more than a few minutes. With my other machine, I never thought twice about temperatures but when I was getting this one someone told me there were thermal issues so I now notice when it's on my lap and a little warm (50'c).

 

I could live without then dGPU and I only really use it test out Tensorflow code for debugging so I can't really speak about gaming. I am fairly certain that sustained temperatures at the edge of the CPU's thermal envelope will degrade the physical hardware - the CPU itself and the mainboard. 100'c is boiling point and I am certain plastics and silicon will not like it.

 

My thoughts on these laptops are rather simple; they should function like an appliance (fridge) and you should never ever have to open or do weird things to them. When I buy a laptop I expect it to just work out of the box, without exception, and I shouldn't have to do anything to it, such as have a tech repaste it because its overheating - thankfully not an issue for me thus far. When I purchase parts and assemble a desktop computer I enter that endeavour with the understanding that I am responsible for its parts selection, build and maintenance - including the very rare occasion it needs a thermal compound refresh. 

 

Idle (on battery 42%) with VStudio 2019 Enterprise open with a large codebase:

Idleish.jpg

surahman
SCSI Port
Posts: 113
Registered: ‎05-24-2017
Location: CA
Views: 1,565
Message 85 of 116

Re: Calling P1 and X1 Extreme users to update BIOS 1.19 - fan noise much better now!

This will be the last post I make on this topic, hopefully.

 

Alzerha:

I don't want to come across as a fanboy advocating for this model of machine - it has its issues with thermals but those come with the size and form factor of the machine. I've had more than my share of woes with Lenovo and I'm at the point where if there were any issues with this machine or my experience with Lenovo I'd walk away from the brand and I'd never advocate for them.

 

I have possibly gotten extremely lucky with the batch of the processor and the person that thermal pasted it, maybe you've gotten unlucky in this regard. It might also be that the workloads that I have for the machine suite its thermals better than yours do. Either way, it's your right, as a consumer, to be completely satisfied with the product you've purchased. So to that effect, if you are having issues with the machine you need to let Lenovo know; and if they can't resolve them and you are still in the 30-day window to return the machine you should exercise that right. If this machine doesn't fit the purpose and requirements you have for it, there may be a better option. You shouldn't settle for anything less than what's ideal for you - I wouldn't.

Lenovo Employee Henrydong
Lenovo Employee
Posts: 45
Registered: ‎11-28-2018
Location: US
Views: 1,551
Message 86 of 116

Re: Calling P1 and X1 Extreme users to update BIOS 1.19 - fan noise much better now!

Hi Alzerha,

You posted a snapshot of AIDA 64 on 04-06-2019 10:45 AM - edited ‎04-06-2019 10:52 AM.

The snapshot shows continuous CPU power from 7 to 10Watt, this is NOT idle at all. That is about the CPU power to play 2x 4K video at a time from Youtube.

Thought you mentioned the sensor graphs interval = 5s then it's a fairly long time period. In this case, CPU temp went up to 60°C as the snapshot shows was perfect working as design. 

 

ThinkPad P72 has more space to put a bigger thermal module, if the processor has the same TDP as X1 Extreme, in theory on same work loading fan would has less chance to spin up. 

 

 

Lenovo Employee Henrydong
Lenovo Employee
Posts: 45
Registered: ‎11-28-2018
Location: US
Views: 1,548
Message 87 of 116

Re: Calling P1 and X1 Extreme users to update BIOS 1.19 - fan noise much better now!

Hmm, you don't need worry about long time playing a game would damage the computer. 

 

It has multiple sensors to monitor the temp in different areas. It will automatically shut down the system before the high temp could damage the system. 

 

spocko
SCSI Port
Posts: 34
Registered: ‎10-11-2018
Location: US
Views: 1,492
Message 88 of 116

Re: Calling P1 and X1 Extreme users to update BIOS 1.19 - fan noise much better now!

 


@surahman wrote:
I am fairly certain that sustained temperatures at the edge of the CPU's thermal envelope will degrade the physical hardware - the CPU itself and the mainboard. 100'c is boiling point and I am certain plastics and silicon will not like it.

The 100C limit comes from Intel, so I think the hardware is designed to handle it.

 

If for some reason you aren't comfortable with those temps, and if you have Windows 10 Pro or Enterprise, then you can enable Hyper-V, which currently limits the max CPU temp to about 80C instead of 100C. I don't know if this is a feature or a bug, but that's the way it currently works. Of couse your max performance will be a little bit lower along with the lower temps.

 

spocko
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Posts: 34
Registered: ‎10-11-2018
Location: US
Views: 1,489
Message 89 of 116

Re: Calling P1 and X1 Extreme users to update BIOS 1.19 - fan noise much better now!


@surahman wrote:
Either way, it's your right, as a consumer, to be completely satisfied with the product you've purchased. So to that effect, if you are having issues with the machine you need to let Lenovo know; and if they can't resolve them and you are still in the 30-day window to return the machine you should exercise that right. If this machine doesn't fit the purpose and requirements you have for it, there may be a better option. You shouldn't settle for anything less than what's ideal for you - I wouldn't.

As long as the "ideal" is realistic, otherwise you are just setting yourself up for disappointment. There is no perfect computer, or any other product. Everything has compromises/tradeoffs, especially something as complex as a laptop. We just have to pick the compromises that are most acceptable to us.

 

To be more specific, the P1/X1E deliver very high performance in a compact package. The tradeoffs are heat, noise, and battery life. Lenovo can't change the laws of physics.

surahman
SCSI Port
Posts: 113
Registered: ‎05-24-2017
Location: CA
Views: 1,463
Message 90 of 116

Re: Calling P1 and X1 Extreme users to update BIOS 1.19 - fan noise much better now!


@spocko wrote:

As long as the "ideal" is realistic, otherwise you are just setting yourself up for disappointment. There is no perfect computer, or any other product. Everything has compromises/tradeoffs, especially something as complex as a laptop. We just have to pick the compromises that are most acceptable to us.

 

To be more specific, the P1/X1E deliver very high performance in a compact package. The tradeoffs are heat, noise, and battery life. Lenovo can't change the laws of physics.


No doubt. I had this one machine, which itself was a replacement, that had this creaking palm rest area on the right - every time you'd type it would creak because the case/frame wasn't up to spec. I kid you not, the experience with support was so bad that time round that I just lived with the issue till that machine failed.

 

I have nothing to complain about with the X1E, solid build and great quality - very happy with it. If you carefully read my comments above again, I acknowledge the tradeoffs you mention and they aren't issues for me. I have a compact 65W USB-C charger from Satechi (60W PD) that travels with the machine. This Thinkpad machine seems to be a different build standard and quality all together compared to the "consumer" lineup. The compromises with the X1E, I can live with, but the compromises I will not live with are actual failures, poor reliability and faults with the machine. Again, these are not issues I have personally had with the X1E thus far.

 

Just to add to this, I get about 5-6hrs battery on this machine which is decent considering it has a 4K display. The brightness is down pretty low and power mode is "Better battery".

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