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01-17-2020

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  • Message 21 of 32

Re: Manifesto on Fn Ctrl key placement

2020-01-17, 9:46 AM

I just got a thinkpad today.

And this is the first thing I have had an issue with, almost immediatly.

 

I think it they could solve this so much easier.

Making both the fn and control key to work with the most common functions.

Like the image I have attached.

Note the blue letters I have added would work also with the FN key as if you had control pressed

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01-20-2020

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  • Message 22 of 32

Re: Manifesto on Fn Ctrl key placement

2020-01-20, 8:58 AM

Hey Joe, if I interpret what you meant correctly, what you wanted can be done through BIOS. However, all these unnecessary confusion and grievance can be avoided if the keyboard layout is just standard in the first place. Like others have said, even with the BIOS swap, the key size will be wrong and the key labelling will also be wrong. A different user will be frustrated by the swap causing the label and function to mismatch. This current layout is just not in the best ergonomic sense, and a user (confident this represents the overwhelming majority of computer users) with a different muscle memory commited will plain suffer with this layout. Like MK said, having a different layout with no good reason, from its own brand even, is just silly.

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01-17-2020

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  • Message 23 of 32

Re: Manifesto on Fn Ctrl key placement

2020-01-20, 20:47 PM

Hi Quincy

 

What i want is not to swap control and FN

 

Basically I am asking them to add more FN functions, so that FN+C does exactly the same as Ctrl+C. (but also Ctrl+C will remain as it is)

So it basically doesnt matter what key you hit, both keys will have the same function asigned.

 

I will probably resort to this BIOS "workaround"

 

But it is ridicolous, today someone asked me about my new laptop.

The first thing I told them:

"Some Idiot thought it would be a great idea to swap the Ctrl and FN keys and its driving me nuts"

 

I am not trying to be disrespectful, this is EXACTLY what I said.

My overall first impression with my new Lenovo Laptop.

 

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2 Posts

03-08-2020

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  • Message 24 of 32

Re:Manifesto on Fn Ctrl key placement

2020-03-08, 19:59 PM

Another exhibit of the ridiculousness of the current layout - the Thinkpad X1 Carbon has a different Ctrl Fn arrangement from the Thinkpad X1 Fold.

 

The keyboard layout mismatch now extends within the same Thinkpad X1 line even. I hope for the actual release they will at least offer an option for us to pick the correct keyboard layout during customization. That will likely solve everything.

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57 Posts

07-13-2018

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  • Message 25 of 32

Re:Manifesto on Fn Ctrl key placement

2020-03-14, 0:28 AM

I've been using ThinkPads for quite a few years, so the layout never bothered me until recently.  My spouse and I planned a trip to Portugal for this past January (fortunately, we didn't wait until Spring Break).  I decided I wanted a rather minimal machine to take along, and so bought a Surface Pro 3 (i3, 4GB, 64GB) to use almost as a dumb terminal.  Thing is, I got to like using it, and it became my home machine and I left the X240 at the office.  

 

After a while, I found it inconvenient to have to think about switching layouts in my head and, since the Surface couldn't handle switching things up, I went into the BIOS and set the keys to the more "conventional" layout on my ThinkPad.

 

But--if I stopped typing for a moment and looked down--all hell broke loose.  The labels being reversed got to me.  So I found a solution.

 

You can get "blackout" stickers designed to shut off the indicator LEDs that are All Over Everything these days.  I used them to cover the labels on the control and function keys, and now I don't have any problems at all.

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8 Posts

04-11-2020

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  • Message 26 of 32

Re:Manifesto on Fn Ctrl key placement

2020-04-13, 17:36 PM

Want to also point out that all 3 international keyboard standards, ISO, ANSI and JIS, place the ctrl key at the bottom left corner.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Physical_keyboard_layouts_comparison_ANSI_ISO_JIS.png

 

The fact that lenovo's ideapad, thinkbook all follow this standard, but they deliberately make the thinkpad line non-compliant is just absurd.

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05-17-2020

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  • Message 27 of 32

Re:Manifesto on Fn Ctrl key placement

2020-05-17, 18:53 PM

That's the only freaking reason I'm not buying a new laptop, why such an error design error stick iteration over iteration.

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8 Posts

04-11-2020

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  • Message 28 of 32

Re:Manifesto on Fn Ctrl key placement

2020-05-26, 11:42 AM

This is where the left Ctrl key should be:

http://www.clickykeyboard.com/2006/sep012006/sep012006-004.jpg

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07-13-2018

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  • Message 29 of 32

Re:Manifesto on Fn Ctrl key placement

2020-07-01, 15:35 PM

I just realized this all reminded me of something.

 

Back in the (very) old days, I owned and used a Kaypro 2/84, a 4MHz Z80-based machine that ran CP/M, and the keyboard looked like the one shown below (for anyone who cares, the photo is of a 4/84). Yes, that is the Control key hanging way out to the left of CapsLock. 

 

One article of faith among Kaypro users (who looked down on the newby PC) was that the control key on the Kaypro was "where God and Lear-Seigler had intended it to be," and the IBM keyboard was totally useless because it had messed with the placement of that vital key.  Sound familiar?

At least on the ThinkPad, you have the option of swapping the FN and CNTRL positions, even if you can't swap the key caps--for which, see my solution a few posts back.   (because the Kaypro keys were reasonably standard, I replaced the ESC key on mine with a red PANIC key).

 

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04-11-2020

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  • Message 30 of 32

Re:Manifesto on Fn Ctrl key placement

2020-07-09, 17:21 PM

Woah, that's so old school, I had to google it! Yes, those Kaypro users did indeed sound familiar to many current Thinkpad users (and the design team) 

 

The description for Kaypro I found on Wikipedia is quite apt as well. It "was exceptionally loyal to its original customer base but slow to adapt to the changing computer market" and "faded from the mainstream before the end of the decade and was eventually forced into bankruptcy". That should serve as a cautionary tale.

 

Well, at least the Kaypro Ctrl is placed along the perimeter of the keyboard estate, which is more ergonomically sound. To give Thinkpad a slight credit, their newer products are moving in the right direction (Thinkbook, Thinkpad X1 Fold). But having this half-hearted transition and inconsistent layout within its own brand is quite ridiculous.

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