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ashaha
Paper Tape
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎12-14-2018
Location: US
Views: 1,084
Message 61 of 248

Re: Thinkpad X1 Extreme Black Screen Help

It is beyond disturbing that this happened across so many models. The P52s had this issue first, now introduced to the X1 and P1 series also. On the P52s the issue has been around longer, and even after two attempted BIOS updates to fix it, it still bricks in random ways (Hybrid->Discrete, Thunderbolt Assist, CSM, apparently also onboard Audio now too).

 

I've been racking my brain on this for a bit now.. how in the <bleep> could Lenovo fail so hard? Even the most obtuse of QE teams would surely catch such fatal failures. What could motivate Lenovo to intentionally do this? Sell more warranties? I can't imagine that would pay off in any way.

 

So I ask, what exactly is the engineering challege here? You have some smart folks buying these laptops Lenovo.. give us some insight as to what is going on. If you haven't noticed already, the thread is filled with various attempts to self-resolve this issue; use the folks here in a combined effort to resolve this. Clearly you incapable of fixing this on your own. Please escalate this and ask your engineers to speak up in open forum here; we can probably make more headway in a joint effort. At least do some testing with your bricks, collect some data here and work with your customers.

 

Anyway, what exactly is the challege here?

 

  • Is it multiple suppliers making tracking down the issue difficult?
  • Is the issue isolated to particular designs / specific revisions?
  • Have you tried too hard to make the firmware universal to "simplify" development but it backfired?
  • Component failure on toggling certain settings?

 

What exactly are the challenges you are facing trying to resolve this?

 

Peace

 

 

Ilumas
Fanfold Paper
Posts: 2
Registered: ‎12-14-2018
Location: CA
Views: 997
Message 62 of 248

Re: Thinkpad X1 Extreme Black Screen Help

Exactly what happened to me todaySmiley Sad

Got the X1 extreme on Monday, spent hours updating till it’s finally ‘up-to-day’, even installed utantu with no problem, then remembered that I also have to switch the graphic option to be descet ...otherwise why would I even buy this? Went to bios, changed the graphic mode, then the world crumbled, who’d think by simply switching the graphic option would ‘brick’ a 3k laptop so easily....gonna have to contact support and see if I can get it fixed by Xmas....this is beyond frustrating>.<.

srodrigo
Fanfold Paper
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎12-13-2018
Location: ES
Views: 977
Message 63 of 248

Re: Thinkpad X1 Extreme Black Screen Help

As far as I know, that Dell only has the Nvidia card, so it doesn't need any option to switch.

mnylen
Punch Card
Posts: 37
Registered: ‎11-30-2018
Location: FI
Views: 969
Message 64 of 248

Re: Thinkpad X1 Extreme Black Screen Help

Great post ashaha. I wish Lenovo would post something, anything on this thread to acknowledge the problem. I've tried to get their attention on Twitter and beyond checking repair orders, they just don't seem to care about the larger issue.

 

It's even worse that on this forum they actually advise to do this setting change at https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-X-Series-Laptops/Thinkpad-x1-extreme-sluggish-performance/td-p... (second post on the page by Lenovo employee Rydeen). I pointed this out to them with hopes of them at least adding a disclaimer that this might break something, but to no avail.

 

On Twitter when I complained about the BIOS issue, they said:

 

"Our laptops are intended only for switchable graphics, since it will let Discrete GPU kick in when intensive graphics is needed. And there's also a settings to set the Discrete GPU per programs. Switching it to discrete in the BIOS would definitely lose its display."

 

Then I pointed out that they themselves suggest doing the switch on the forums, and:

 

"However, if you'll search for discussions for loosing display after switching to Discrete, which also happened w/ other models, the solutions were repair or reverting changes by either blind navigating in BIOS or reset it back to default by pressing F9 in the BIOS. -Mario_Lenovo"

 
Completely dismissing the suggestion that maybe they shouldn't recommend doing the exact same thing that "would definitely lose its display" on their own forums.
srodrigo
Fanfold Paper
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎12-13-2018
Location: ES
Views: 968
Message 65 of 248

Re: Thinkpad X1 Extreme Black Screen Help

I know I'm not the OP, but maybe this will help someone.

I finally managed to speak to support again, after not answering to the phone and getting a useless "support person" the day after, who didn't help at all and just gave me a phone number of another company that apparently manages the online sales, and they don't pick up the phone either. So yesterday I managed to speak to another support person who kindly appologised for the issue and opened a support ticket for a replacement and now that other company that doesn't even pick up the phone at all has to contact me (ha!) to replace my laptop.

Lenovo seem to know very well what's the issue, they even asked me if I had an X1 Extreme when I described the issue, and immediately said I should get a fresh unit. And now I have to wait for another 3 weeks to get another unit and hope that they, bunch of incompetents, will eventually fix this monumental error with some BIOS update, when it seems like there are some other ways to brick the laptop, not only switching the display options?

No way. I'm simply asking for a refund as long as I can speak to them, and buying a Dell instead. The build quality is excellent, but that's useless if the freaking laptop bricks when it shouldn't.

Isafang
Punch Card
Posts: 51
Registered: ‎12-10-2018
Location: SG
Views: 934
Message 66 of 248

Re: Thinkpad X1 Extreme Black Screen Help

Dell has their own set of bios problems too, i’m a current user of a Dell XPS 15 9570, i was hoping by switching over to the X1E solves my problem but after going thru the forums i realised lenovo issn’t much better off either. 😕

srodrigo
Fanfold Paper
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎12-13-2018
Location: ES
Views: 922
Message 67 of 248

Re: Thinkpad X1 Extreme Black Screen Help

Hi @isafang, I'm interested in knowing what problems you had. From my research, I know that flashing the bios on those Dell can brick the laptop, but not changing settings (which is even worse). But maybe there is more that I'm not aware of.

It's a matter of distrust at this point, Lenovo doesn't inspire me any confidence at all. I don't think Dell is going to be worse. Plus Lenovo took 3 weeks to send me my laptop, and I need it for work, I can't wait for another month. A new Dell should be here within one week.

Isafang
Punch Card
Posts: 51
Registered: ‎12-10-2018
Location: SG
Views: 896
Message 68 of 248

Re: Thinkpad X1 Extreme Black Screen Help

Hi srodrigo,
The issue with the XPS 15 is not about bricking but rather it is the thermal throttling which limits performance and the bios inconsistencies,

For example;
1) The current latest bios version 1.6.0 for the XPS 15 9570 causes the colors to be over saturated and i have to downgrade it back to version 1.5.0 in order for the colors to be back to normal.

2) It takes longer for Dell to load into windows, my XPS 15 takes 19 secs to fully load windows from power on button while my 4yr old thinkpad T440s takes only 16 secs.

 

3) Although the XPS 15 comes with hybrid graphics the bios simply does not have the option for you to switch graphics.

*Do a search online and in the Dell forums for “XPS 15 9570 issues” and you’ll get alot of hits.

Hope this helps.

Isafang
Punch Card
Posts: 51
Registered: ‎12-10-2018
Location: SG
Views: 890
Message 69 of 248

Re: Thinkpad X1 Extreme Black Screen Help

Oh and forgot to mention the dell XPS 15 uses killer wifi 1535 which is slower and there is only one nvme slot for ssd vs the X1E which uses the latest intel AC9560 which is faster and has two nvme slots for ssd which you can choose to run in raid configuration if you so choose.
srodrigo
Fanfold Paper
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎12-13-2018
Location: ES
Views: 879
Message 70 of 248

Re: Thinkpad X1 Extreme Black Screen Help

Thanks a lot for the info.

So, basically, two of the theoretically best laptops out there are complete crap... Awesome. Maybe it's time to go back to desktop machines.

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