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09-08-2019

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Re: X1 Extreme Gen 2 missing keystrokes

2020-01-17, 12:14 PM

I can confirm having this issue as well, having one of the early models X1E gen2.

 

Received mine september 1st 2019. I was well aware of my machine missing keystrokes, mainly 'p' and 'n'. At first i thought it might be a simple bug fixible with a software update. However, the problem still persists among many user. I am hoping Lenovo is able  to pinpoint the cause of this problem, and work on a fix. I see people having their keyboard model replaced / motherboard replaced without effect.

 

Keyboard model: LiteOn

BIOS-version: N2OET41W 1.28
Product number: 20QVCTO1WW

Kind regards, Robert

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8 Posts

12-08-2019

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Re: X1 Extreme Gen 2 missing keystrokes

2020-01-18, 0:03 AM

Hello guys.

 

I agree with @SamSaffron, new keyboard has Dolby Atmos logo on it, has the same part number, without two finishing AA letters. Also, I confirm changes in computer thermals. Looks like, coolers started to run more often and I can feel certain heat from keyboard top part. However, it's just how i feel it. Need more tests.

So, Lenovo techs replaced keyboard, keyboard raiser subboard and finaly motherboar. The issue was not resolved, as expected. And this was stated in official technicial conclusion.

From this point, I have two options:

 

1. Send computer to Leonvo Support/Engineering for further investigation for unpredictable time.

2. Request a refund, and send laptop to Lenovo sales department.

 

Ridculous thing is, that if i'll selct refund, support enineers will not receive laptop, and won't be able to investigate the issue! I can not understand such an approach to premium product and customers, form serious vendor.

At this point, I need a couple days timeout to make a descision how to proceed.

Form one hand, I like this laptop plus I invested some $$ to RAM and second NVME drive. From the other - it's kind of unfair to be a QA tester of prmium product for very premium price, I've paid for it...

 

After 10 years on Mac, with no even one issue, I've got this...

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45 Posts

01-18-2019

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Re: X1 Extreme Gen 2 missing keystrokes

2020-01-18, 0:11 AM
Ridculous thing is, that if i'll selct refund, support enineers will not receive laptop, and won't be able to investigate the issue! 

This is ridiculous. These are $2500 laptops. The only thing they have over the competition is reputation of reliability. Look at this thread and what we are learning from our own experience. What do they think will happen several years from now??

 

 

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25 Posts

11-20-2019

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Re: X1 Extreme Gen 2 missing keystrokes

2020-01-18, 0:29 AM

Even more ridiculous to me is the fact that we, the users, are the ones giving updates, advising each other and telling outcome of trials, instead of Lenovo staff, which remain, inexplicably, silent....

 

I (finally, after 1 month waiting) got a call yesterday from the escalation of my case. A Lenovo rep told they would send me a replacement and they will inspect my laptop. I sent him an email with my address and the features of my P1 Gen 2 with all my customizations as he requested. Still waiting. As oppossed to what others have said, my experience with customer service is all but pleasant: lack of response, unfriendly unsupportive staff, I have to keep pushing sending messages, leaveing voice mails and still have to wait without updates or anything forever. 

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195 Posts

12-01-2019

CL

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Re: X1 Extreme Gen 2 missing keystrokes

2020-01-18, 1:23 AM

I contacted support past Monday for a keyboard replacement, even knowing that there are near-zero chances that this would fix the issue. The part wasn't available in Chile so I will have to wait, who knows how much time...

Now that I saw one user experience, I was hopping that the "Dolby Atmos branded keyboard" would resolve this issue, but I am seeing that it will not the case with a second case and it will even worse the notebook thermals. I don't know even if I will receive that part or I will receive the same keyboard. 

If this problem isn't resolved by the end of January, I will return the notebook and I will never, ever, recommend or work with Lenovo again. 

The disappointment is so big. I would never trust in a tech review anymore. This was the "ultimate" notebook and it's a garbage.

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12-08-2019

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Re: X1 Extreme Gen 2 missing keystrokes

2020-01-18, 2:05 AM

@joloriquelme Dolby atmos labeled keyboard doesn't resolve the issue unfortunately.

Some people may report improvements, however, it's hard to say for sure, without several days of heavy testing. 

What definitely wasn't resolveed, is what, I believe, is the root of the issue. Here is my observations and way to reproduce:

 

1. If you press 'asd' keys very fast, or simultaniously (to reproduce for sure) - you will get 'dsa'

2. If you press 'sdf', you'll get 'fds'

3. But! If you press 'dfg' you will get nothing on linux or beep + nothing on windows/BIOS. 

Same thing with som other combinations, for example 'hjk', 'bnm', 'yui' and some other. These are easily reproduceable. But combinations may not be sequent.

 

So, my idea is, that keyboard controller, which is querying keyboard matrix can not redister some key combinations, like on very cheap and crappy keyboards. So, one option - keyboard controller is not sending correct scan codes to BIOS, another one - BIOS can not handle these scan-codes. 

Another interesting thing, that keyboard, trackpoint and touchpad are connected to system not via USB, but via i8042 controller, which is old as a mammoth **bleep** PS/2 interface controller. Running in this case in extended multiplexing mode, to support more then 2 devices. Why do lenovo uses it instead much more modern, fast and reliable USB unterface - is the question... Probably bcause IBM design... :) But PS/2 interface itself shouldn't be an issue. It's just an observation...

 

Thechincally, we can probably trace what's running via PS/2 bus, and see, if keyboard controller sends correct scan codes to i8042, and find out for sure, if it's BIOS or keyboard controller. Keyboard controller is more likely, because it beeps, which probably means, that keyboard sends out some undecodable trash. Similar things occured on some old chap PS/2 keyboards, when you overwhelm bufer, it beeped.

But **bleep**, i don't want to do reverse engeneering, i just want to use laptop i've paid for...

 

PS. Definitly the issue was not resolved by keyboard replacement. Still fixing missing characters in this post...

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11-20-2019

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Re: X1 Extreme Gen 2 missing keystrokes

2020-01-18, 2:13 AM

I also noticed the inverted combination of keys from time time, but didn't get to test it like you did. good job. Because of things like this I also feel this is a software-related issue. The keyboard seems to work fine but for some reason the laptop is not able to interprete the strokes correctly. I am also noticing lately that although it keeps being quite random, I am seeing that "o" is especially being missed compared to other keys. Probably not important but there it is. 

I also forgot to say that, at least in my P1 Gen 2 acquired in late October, I have the Dolby Atmos on the left bottom corner of the keyboard frame as well. It came like that from the beginning, of course with the keyboard issue problem.

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Re: X1 Extreme Gen 2 missing keystrokes

2020-01-18, 2:20 AM

@Darrisol from what I understand, how keyboard controllers should work, controller in keyboard querying keys and saves scan codes to internal FIFO buffer. (when buffer overflows - beeps. At least it worked that way 20 years ago :) ). Then it sends buffer content to bus, PS2 in this case. So inverted keys, in my opinion, most likely related to how keyboard controller stores scan codes in it's buffer and sends to bus.

Also, guys, it would be great if you can report, were you able to reproduce:

1. reverted characters order.

2. beep and no input on 'dfg' combination.

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12-01-2019

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Re: X1 Extreme Gen 2 missing keystrokes

2020-01-18, 4:26 AM
Maybe there is a low level Hardware that it's causing some kind of conflict. There are people without this problem.

Does everybody has Windows Hello IR camera? Is there anyone that don't have it?
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11-02-2015

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Re: X1 Extreme Gen 2 missing keystrokes

2020-01-18, 9:51 AM

There's been a lot going on in this thread and it might be important to level set a few things:

 

  • the "press `asdf` simultaneously and see the output" doesn't feel particularly relevant; thinkpads all the way back to my T420s have shown an "out of order" behavior here, due to how the keys are scanned. Your keyboard displaying this behavior isn't necessarily relevant to the problem, although I do believe Thinkpads have some unique behaviors in this regard. I have the following machines which have this behavior, but don't exhibit dropped keypresses: T420s, T450, T450s, T480s. For what it's worth, I might imagine this could cause issues for extraordinarily fast typists; I type 80+ wpm and don't find it affecting me. In any case it would only cause swapped letters, not dropped ones.
  • The "beep" when pressing too many simultaneous keys has been present in many systems for a long time, and isn't indicative of a problem. This is due to rollover, which is when a keyboard has more simultaneous keystrokes than it's able to process. It is probably not at issue here either: many past thinkpads can only handle so many simultaneous keys, which isn't unique to thinkpad keyboards in any regard. If you experience the "beep" during normal typing, then maybe you're so fast that you've somehow managed to trigger the issue. If you mash a number of keys and experience the "beep": that's normal, I'm afraid. It's not a hardware problem. You can be unhappy with the fact that Lenovo doens't support unlimited key rollover, but they are not alone in this regard.

I do think there's a hardware issue at play. I've had two X1E2 laptops, the first I returned due to this issue. The second behaves far better, but not at all perfect, and I've decided it's within acceptable tolerances to keep the machine. The things I can tell you between the two laptops are:

 

  • The keys feel different. The keyboard which exhibited more issues had a "squishier" feel. Over time, it became better as the keyboard wore in. The keyboard on the machine I kept, which exhibited fewer issues, had a better and more "click-y" feel out of the box.
  • In general, it seems like the keys have issues with where they actuate, which is true between both machines, and not isolated to the keyboard keys themselves: it also exhibits in the mouse buttons (I'm a trackpoint user)

The actuation can be tested outside of the keyboard: for example, the mouse buttons exhibit issues where you can simulate multiple clicks without a "click". This is easily testible by selecting text: I can double- and triple-click without feeling a "click" on the mouse keys, just by adjusting the pressue on the mouse buttons. I can perform a similar operation on the keyboard keys themselves: pressing the button multiple times by altering the pressure that's applied to the key itself. This can be replicated on the keyboard keys also; it's difficult to replicate in cases where key repeat is present (such as typing in a word processor) but can be more easily displayed in games where holding, releasing, and pressing keys again has immediate effect. I find that by altering pressure on the keys I can actuate them without a "click", which is not something I can perform on my older thinkpads. I feel like this issue is down to the sensitivity of the keys themselves, and having an actuation point not aligned with the key "click", and not necessarily a firmware problem in the keyboard.

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