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drholliday
Token Ring
Posts: 85
Registered: ‎06-27-2018
Location: US
Views: 1,881
Message 1 of 79

X1 Yoga 2 auto keyboard backlight vs auto-screen brightness issue

Does anybody else here have a weird issue with the Auto setting on the keyboard backlight where it only works when the auto-SCREEN brightness is disabled? 

 

If both are enabled, the screen will auto change correctly, but the keyboard stays off all the time. It still works with Fn-Space for off-low-high, but no auto enable. If I disable the Auto-Screen Brightness in Windows, the keyboard auto will start working correctly.

 

Enable both, shine a flashlight at the top left of the screen and watch the brightness go up/keyboard turn off. Turn off flashlight and screen goes down, but keyboard backlight doesn't turn back on.

 

Then, turn off the screen auto-brightness and shine a flashlight. The screen will (obviously) stay the same, keyboard backlight turns off. Turn off the flashlight and the keyboard will fade back on within a few seconds.

 

Doesn't matter what version of the Intel UHD driver is installed (23.20, 24.20.100, etc), it does the same. Newest Intel sensor drivers, newest PM driver, etc all installed. SIF has been reinstalled multiple times. Does it in both Win10 Pro/Ent 17134 and 16299. Reflashing the BIOS and ME has no effect, full CMOS clear has no effect, hooking a debugger to the light sensor data stream shows it's changing accordingly to brightness.

 

 

drholliday
Token Ring
Posts: 85
Registered: ‎06-27-2018
Location: US
Views: 1,793
Message 2 of 79

Re: X1 Yoga 2 auto keyboard backlight vs auto-screen brightness issue

Nobody?

Kiristiba
Paper Tape
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎09-01-2018
Location: US
Views: 1,720
Message 3 of 79

Re: X1 Yoga 2 auto keyboard backlight vs auto-screen brightness issue

Hi

 

I have the same Notebook and Model ... and the same Problem :'(

It would be really nice if someone from Lenovo could tell,
how to get automatic screen backlicht to work, together with the automatic keyboard backlight.
I checked the sensor with an app and it's defenetly working, so it must be a pure software issue.

I too have all the latest drivers installed but I think it never worked, 
so it's not introduced by a recent update.

 

Thanks a lot in advance
Best regards

Kristin

drholliday
Token Ring
Posts: 85
Registered: ‎06-27-2018
Location: US
Views: 1,708
Message 4 of 79

Re: X1 Yoga 2 auto keyboard backlight vs auto-screen brightness issue

Finally! Somebody else that noticed this! It's odd how nobody else ever noticed that each one works perfectly, as long as they aren't both turned on. Support won't even answer any of the tickets that I've posted about this. 

 

It seems that something blocks the sensor driver from the keyboard backlight library when the screen auto-bright is enabled. If both are turned on and you hit the sensor with high light, the screen goes up and the keyboard goes off. Take the light away and the screen goes down, but the keyboard doesn't re-enable. Then, go into "Display Settings" on the desktop and disable the auto-screen brightness. The keyboard will turn back on. 

 

As a developer, it looks like the display driver is eating the message and not passing it on to the keyboard driver. Should be an easy fix, but nobody wants to acknowledge that there's an issue!

 

Come'on Lenovo...this should be a simple fix. 

 

 

drholliday
Token Ring
Posts: 85
Registered: ‎06-27-2018
Location: US
Views: 1,678
Message 5 of 79

Re: X1 Yoga 2 auto keyboard backlight vs auto-screen brightness issue

Wow. Still nothing from anybody. Not here, not from support, no responses...

 

As an IT director, it's little, easy things like this that changes how we view a company. I used to love IBM stuff. Had a ton of Thinkpads and ordered Thinkstations for most of our "desktops". I had to nix a request for all new Thinkservers today in lieu of Dells (as much as I'm not a fan of their stuff) simply because there's support available for them. I hate to think how problems that may arise from that order would be treated on mission and time critical issues if nobody even wants to attempt addressing a simple "cheap" issue on my personal gear.

 

Makes it really hard to recommend (or even show) any product when one's own gear is broken with no support!

Kiristiba
Paper Tape
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎09-01-2018
Location: US
Views: 1,666
Message 6 of 79

Re: X1 Yoga 2 auto keyboard backlight vs auto-screen brightness issue

I also send feedback to microsoft because I don't know if lenovo is really the one to blame here.

But you are right, it would be cool to get at least some feedback from them anyway.

What's interesting is the amount of "how to disable automatic brightness on windows" question which google finds.

Looks like MS messed up this feature a little bit. Smiley Wink

For Android there were a lot of apps, which improved the autobrightness behavior back in the day it wasn't good ootb
but for windows I couldn't find a single one.

Do you have access to similar laptops? Do they have the same issue or is this dedicated to the 2gen X1?

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drholliday
Token Ring
Posts: 85
Registered: ‎06-27-2018
Location: US
Views: 1,653
Message 7 of 79

Re: X1 Yoga 2 auto keyboard backlight vs auto-screen brightness issue

This is definitely an issue with the X1Y2, most likely an issue with their System Foundation software. It's their software that drives the "auto" keyboard light (low/high is a hardware item). A lot of other machines, including the Fujitsu and Dell units around here (there's probably 100+ sitting in my lab right now), work on the concept of turning on the keyboard light with mouse/keyboard activity and then fading out after a few seconds of inactivity. Lenovo seems to be the only one that's really using the ambient sensor to control the backlight probably via software (their SIF driver) - ever notice that the auto-keyboard-backlight doesn't come on until Windows loads (usually around the time the login screen appears)? The ones without ALS only seem to have the Fn+Space to set off/low/high. Mine is the only X1 Yoga here, as I usually like to test every model for a while to build a Ghost image for operating system deployment and to find quirks in the hardware. We have some older X1 Carbons, but they don't have the ALS design; those have been relatively bug free.

 

It's not a Microsoft problem. I'm also a developer and while Windows provide the API interfaces for reading sensors and adjusting, it's up to the driver writers to "build" the actual functionality. The typical issue is that most devs write the driver and either 1) don't test it at all, 2) let the consumer test it (bad idea!), or 3) test it in a bright "lab" environment. That's why it seems that all the auto-brightness routines seem to suck and everybody wants to disable it. Plus, MS is purely pathetic when it comes to "bugs". They'll just 1) point you to the hardware manufacturer, 2) tell you to do a "clean boot" and/or reinstall, or 3) deny the issue exists (non-repro). They even do it to those of us who are using their tools to build software unless we go out of our way to prove an issue. This keyboard issue is purely on Lenovo (or Intel, which will only talk to the Lenovo engineering team). The pathetic part is that both auto-brightnesses work independently of each other (and decently well) - they just don't work together and should be an easy bug fix.

 

Typically, when the ALS detects a light change, it'll trip an event that is subscribed to by different drivers. The video driver subscribes and uses the event to change the brightness (it's also why brightness won't change without a proper video driver installed). One of the components in the SIF (or whatever software Lenovo is using to control the keyboard) also subscribes to this, but seems to have an issue or stops listening when the brightness is going from high to low.

 

I'm about to get really pissed and start debugging some of this myself, just to fix my own. It's embarassing when I have requests to order tens of thousands of dollars in hardware and can't recommend a manufacturer because my personal unit isn't right without any support, not even a "go away, we don't care" response. Especially now that this unit is out of warranty (I've had it for a while), they really don't care. 

 

It seems that the ALS relates to the Intel Sensor Suite which in turn has 3-4 services that listen to it. The Intel Serial IO driver may also have something to do with it, but I can't seem to find the hardware on my unit. If you get a chance, could you look at the Device Manager (Win-X, M) and see if you have something like "Intel Serial IO xxx - 9D62" present? It'll probably be under System Devices. Lenovo seems to post a driver for it on their site, and SIO sometimes is related to controlling/interpreting sensors. Yet, I've tried every available driver (even Intel dev/beta drivers) and the SIO device doesn't appear.

drholliday
Token Ring
Posts: 85
Registered: ‎06-27-2018
Location: US
Views: 1,575
Message 8 of 79

Re: X1 Yoga 2 auto keyboard backlight vs auto-screen brightness issue

I cannot believe that in all this time, 1) nobody else has noticed this issue and 2) Lenovo still refuses to respond/fix the issue (let alone acknowledge the issue)! 

drholliday
Token Ring
Posts: 85
Registered: ‎06-27-2018
Location: US
Views: 1,522
Message 9 of 79

Re: X1 Yoga 2 auto keyboard backlight vs auto-screen brightness issue

So, another user noted the same problem in a different posting. And still not a word from anybody at Lenovo about fixing a simple issue?

feligato
Fanfold Paper
Posts: 8
Registered: ‎10-28-2018
Location: CL
Views: 1,496
Message 10 of 79

Re: X1 Yoga 2 auto keyboard backlight vs auto-screen brightness issue

I had the auto backlit keyboard setting up on the Lenovo Vantage app, and after turning on the auto brightness feature on Windows Settings I can confirm that the auto backlit on the keyboard stopped working.

I haven't noticed until now cause I'm very used to control the brightness on my own, but the sensor for the auto brightness is kind of good so effectively this is a issue I'm very interested on seeing resolved.

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