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voidshatter
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Message 91 of 241

Re: X1 Yoga 3rd gen HDR display not HDR capable

The physical size of my 14" screen is 310mm x 175mm. If I put a linear gradiant of 8-bit (256 levels) from left to right, each banding is only 1.21mm wide. My eyes surely cannot see the banding, not unless I stare very closely.

Roman79
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Message 92 of 241

Re: X1 Yoga 3rd gen HDR display not HDR capable

Depends on what color, and it makes a big difference if just a static photo or in motion like in a video. 

voidshatter
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Message 93 of 241

Re: X1 Yoga 3rd gen HDR display not HDR capable

You could run AIDA64's monitor diagnostics. Check only the gradiant options. It will show diagnal gradiants. With my 8-bit OLED panel (X1 Yoga 2nd) I can see slight banding in the midtone-to-shadow areas for red, green, orange and grey *only if* I stare really closely and look for it on purpose. (Each banding is merely over maybe 1.5mm wide.) At normal viewing distance I cannot see any banding.

 

If I repeat these tests on my 24" Dell U2410, I can see banding a lot more easily. So this is something to do with display size. The smaller it is, the easier it is to fool the customer with 8-bit.

Roman79
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Message 94 of 241

Re: X1 Yoga 3rd gen HDR display not HDR capable

Yes, sad but true, indeed. But i hope Lenovo will not do so. :/

JNerdy
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Message 95 of 241

Re: X1 Yoga 3rd gen HDR display not HDR capable

Based on the information here:  Lenovo can in fact both claim HDR compliance and DolbyVision support:  Vesa Standard is much stricter regarding bit depth and "DisplayHDR" standards.

 

Please dont take this a gospel, but, I did find it an intersting read - source link below VESA DisplayHDR chart.

 

Relevant quotes from Source:

 


One of Wooster's main points is that the HDR 10 standard and others, including Dolby Vision, don't require specific brightness levels (1,000 nits for HDR 10 and higher for Dolby Vision) as the article stated, but merely aim for it. By contrast, the VESA DisplayHDR 1000 standard does require a peak 1,000 nit level.

 

 


@Roman79 
Wooster also pointed out that HDR 10 and other standards don't actually require true 10-bit panels like the article originally asserted. "All of the VESA DIsplayHDR, UHD Alliance, and HDR 10 specs require 10-bit input. And in fact only VESA actually specifies panel bit depth requirements," he said. "The VESA requirement is 8+2, which is also what the majority of 4K/HDR TV's use too. The heavy majority of '10-bit' displays are actually 8+2."


Screen Shot 2018-05-19 at 1.30.00 PM.png

 

SOURCE: Engadget

Roman79
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Message 96 of 241

Re: X1 Yoga 3rd gen HDR display not HDR capable

The problem is, even input is only in 8bit. (Windows is driving 8bit, 10bit is not avaible). So there is no chance to interpret HDR Material correct. ^^

YOGAbbagabbro
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Message 97 of 241

Re: X1 Yoga 3rd gen HDR display not HDR capable

These concepts are well worn in most/all camera;image processing;gadget;media standards (et al) forums, and b/c of the nature of this onion, you should'nt expect to arrive at a satisfying conclusion: there are just too many layers with too much 'wiggle room' for interpretation - and correctly so.  We CAN talk competently about specific 'layers', and we CAN arrive at binary conclusions (correct/wrong) for some, and specifically those who's req's have been defined by standards. Does the hardware meet the defined standards? Y/N, great, we're done. When we start considering the whole onion - say "can we see the difference" or "does it really matter" - there's not a lot of point to discussing IF we're trying to arrive at some definitive satisfying authoritative conclusion, as several important layers simply break down into individual perception/limits of current science, that sort of thing.

With that disclaimer...

RELATIVely speaking, the higher bit depth's main (or sole) value/purpose at consumer-typical screen sizes falls within interpretive overhead or 'cushion'. Gamut is much more informative for hardware (assuming typically competent colorspace conversion). At 8+ bpc, banding should be the 'fault' of the interpreters, not the 'physical' color output capacity of the hardware. If source data is smooth and interpreted competently, it should appear without banding on an 8bit (rgb) hardware. Increased bit depth CAN be useful with both hardware/software, but generally it allows for the artist/creative to have more control over how they want their 'thing' to be received/perceived. Banding is real, but with modern 8bit+ hardware and above assumptions, it's almost/always a failure of an interpretive step in the color managment flow. That CAN include the role of your hardware/drivers - if they have suboptimal color mapping elements. Now if your monitor's hardware ('physical') colorspace/gamut can't display a color, then it can't, and obv. if that missing color is present in data, then you may notice it- or you may not, depending upon if you were expecting it or how well your hardware/driver/software roles fudge it. If your screen can display HIGHER bitdepth, then you still have all of the considerations/onion layers that again fall in the realm of those 'interpretive' roles - and how 'well' they perform...for: you. And then we're here again, at the final step of perception, where I can say the onion looks apple green, and you could say it's an 8bit olive.

But yeah, mfgr's should certainly honor any promise their hardware meets X or Y standard, and should of course be held to that.

Thinkpad X1 Yoga 3rd Gen, Lenovo TB3 Graphics Dock, Samsung UH 750 QLED UHD 4K Monitor
jefferai
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Message 98 of 241

Re: X1 Yoga 3rd gen HDR display not HDR capable

Saw this article today: https://www.pcworld.com/article/3269591/computers/windows-10-april-2018-update-hdr-settings.html

 

Interestingly those settings do not show up for me. It's almost as if it is yet another indicator that the panel isn't HDR capable...

BrianSu
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Message 99 of 241

Re: X1 Yoga 3rd gen HDR display not HDR capable

Hi,

 

So I've realised that playing HDR videos on YouTube via Edge is only possible when my X1 Carbon with DV screen is plugged into external USB-C power. As soon as I run it on the internal battery, HDR disappears from the list of resolutions.


Why does this happen?

 

 

Thanks.

Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Carbon (6th Gen), ASUS PG27UQ Quantum Dot UHD 4K HDR 144 Hz Monitor
Lenovo Staff
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Message 100 of 241

Re: X1 Yoga 3rd gen HDR display not HDR capable

 


@BrianSu wrote:

Hi,

 

So I've realised that playing HDR videos on YouTube via Edge is only possible when my X1 Carbon with DV screen is plugged into external USB-C power. As soon as I run it on the internal battery, HDR disappears from the list of resolutions.


Why does this happen?

 

 

Thanks.


The Windows default is to "optimize for battery life" when playing videos on battery power.  You will need to change this setting in the video playback settings to "optimize for video quality."  This should solve your issue when on battery power.   

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