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5 Posts

06-05-2021

Hong Kong S.A.R of China

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X1 Yoga Gen6 show color segment/banding on youtube video when windows HDR is ON

2021-06-05, 4:14 AM

Problem:

Youtube video shows color segmenting/banding on smooth color transistions.

https://youtu.be/05przYOpp28

 

Platform:

Lenovo X1 Yoga i7-1165G7 Xe graphics and 3840x2400 HDR display.

Windows 10 20H2 Build 19042.985

Graphics driver using 27.20.100.9510, 27.20.100.9466, 27.20.100.9616. Same result.

 

Setting:

Windows HDR ON.

Windows scaling set to 225%.

AC power is plugged in.

 

Observation:

1. In full screen mode, when scaling is 225%, the color segmenting/banding is observed. (Image  #1). Similar for 175%, 350%.

 

2.  However, if scaling is 250%, there is no issue. (Image #2). Similar for 100%, 125%, 150%, 200%, 300%, 400%.

 

3. In window mode, regardless of scaling factor, the issue is observed when video frame is resized to some dimension (image #3). 

 

On the other hand, there is no issue on some other  dimensions (image #4). Multiple dimensions is observed to have color segmenting/banding issue.

 

4. Further, putting Intel Command Center on top of the video frame "fix" the color segmenting/banding issue. (Image #5).

 

5. Printscreen image shows no issue when color segmenting/banding is observed. It means that color code in graphics memory is correct.

 

6. Switch OFF windows HDR "fix" the issue.

 

7. On the other hand, on desktop with GTX1060 has no issue regardless of full screen/window mode.

 

8. Color segmenting/banding issue is observed in full screen mode regardless of scaling when running in battery mode.

 

9.  During testing with external monitor, I hook up another two monitor in one attempt. The problem is "fixed" under the three monitor configuration.

i.e. Internal 3840x2400 10bit HDR 60fps + Thunderbolt USB-C DP LG27UP850-W 3840x2160 10bit HDR 60fps + HDMI AOC 1920x1080 8bit SDR 60fps. The white cable is Thunderbolt USB-C and the black cable is HDMI. (Image #9). All three monitor has to be switched on for this to work.

It is verified that both external Thunderbolt DP USB-C monitor and internal monitor runs in HDR mode by comparing youtube HDR video played on the external DP monitors and internal monitor vs HDMI SDR monitor.

 

If only the Thunderbolt USB-C DP monitor is attached, the behaviour is the same as before. Color segmenting/banding is observed. (Image #10)

 

If  only the HDMI monitor is attached, same color segmenting/banding problem is observed . White USB-C DP cable is removed and replaced by DC power plug-in. (Image #11)

 

Thank you for your attention. Looking forward to a solving the issue.

 

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3638 Posts

01-08-2021

Philippines

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  • Message 2 of 11

Re:X1 Yoga Gen6 show color segment/banding on youtube video when windows HDR is ON

2021-06-05, 7:21 AM

Hello carson945,

 


Welcome to Lenovo Community

 

 

Have you updated the BIOS to the latest version (thru the support site), if not please do so and follow the README txt file for guidance.

Try fully uninstalling the display driver, completely remove it from the system then download and install a fresh copy of the driver from the same support website (that would be version 27.20.100.9510)

Have you tried playing the video thru YouTube app instead running it thru the web?
Update us how it goes

 

 

Regards, 
Lorenzo_Lenovo



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5 Posts

06-05-2021

Hong Kong S.A.R of China

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Re:X1 Yoga Gen6 show color segment/banding on youtube video when windows HDR is ON

2021-06-05, 11:43 AM

Hello Lorenzo_Lenovo, 

 

Thanks for your suggestion. 

 

I've just updated the BIOS to the lastest version 1.39 and re-install 9510 display driver after un-install and removal display driver files.

The behaviour is still the same. Problem not solved.

 

Consider the fact that

1. GTX1060 + 4K HDR monitor has no issue. It means that youtube on Chrome should not have issue.

2. Indeed, printscreen image is correct. It means that video decoding is correct.

3. Battery mode always show the issue. It means that it is not application software issue.

4. Putting Intel Command Center on Top of video frame "fix" the problem. Besides, three monitor configuration is correct while standalone internal monitor or internal monitor + single external monitor is incorrect. 

 

It means that problem is associated with some kind of hardware / driver bug of Intel Xe graphics or X1 Yoga Gen6.

 

To all folks with Intel Xe, do you have similar findings as mine?

 

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91 Posts

08-15-2017

Netherlands

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  • Message 4 of 11

Re:X1 Yoga Gen6 show color segment/banding on youtube video when windows HDR is ON

2021-06-07, 8:59 AM

X1Y3 here. Different but same :) This problem is bugging me from the start.

Except I always have that bandig (regardless of all your different proposals which I tested). Never found an expanation (mpc-hc/youtube/vimeo). This is puzzeling me also.

 

Could you try a tool called "ditherig" which disables Intel graphic cards dithering?:

 

https://kawamoto.no-ip.org/henteko/myapp_en.html

 

https://kawamoto.no-ip.org/henteko/myapp/ditherig114.zip

 

You can also read about it (eye strain)

 

https://community.intel.com/t5/Graphics/Dithering-on-iGPUs/td-p/248658

 

I you need any help with that I can assist. You basically have to call ditherig.exe after unpacking and select no dithering.

 

It didn't work for me unfortunately. But who knows?

 

-

 

First I was assuming that it's my panel but specs say it's a true 8bit panel (not 6bit +frc). I then went down further the rabbid whole.

 

There's an option in Bios (that is if you have unlocked the Advanced Settings via a bios mod) that's called "Panel bit depth" and that can have a value of 18bit or 24bit =8x8x8 = 16M colors = no banding). I'm just on the way of testing that...

 

-

 

On the other hand your findings show it's clearly driver related as you can modify the behaviour by dragging the control panel over it or changing scaling. That leaves me to the conclusion Intel f*cked up their HDR or PAPV chain resulting in a "reduced" bit depth. Nice findings btw!

 

I also found this:

 

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000057132/graphics.html

 

Intel® Graphics supports up to 12-bit color depth, but this may vary depending on the display. On our current driver implementation, the color depth will be set per the OS configuration.

 

and

 

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000057279/graphics/graphics-for-8th-generation-intel-processors.html

 

Seems that Intel is switching back and forth from 6bit to 8bit. Maybe that HDR or "video protection chain" sh*t is the culprit and it's clearly the driver not giving us any control over bit depth.

 

Keep me updated.

 

Edit: Did you look for the powersettings in the Intel control panel and disabled all energy options (as you experienced different outcomes on battery)?

 

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11799 Posts

09-04-2014

Slovakia

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Re:X1 Yoga Gen6 show color segment/banding on youtube video when windows HDR is ON

2021-06-11, 10:37 AM

Hello @carson945 

 

Thanks for posting about this. I passed your post on to engineering to ask their thoughts, according to them what you are seeing is a known limitation of processing SDR content in HDR mode, other similarly equipped systems will display the same symptoms. The below picture was captured on a different system, the content is SDR and 8 bit, it exhibits the same symptoms you have described.

 

HDR mode encodes HDR content in 10bit but SDR encodes content in 8bit with dithering.

10bit HDR content decoded in 10bit resolution has no problem regardless dithering function.

But 8bit SDR content decoded in 10bit resolution shows such banding if dithering is turned off.

Dithering malfunction in HDR mode is the root cause and maybe very common in all windows PC.

 

Andy

 

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5 Posts

06-05-2021

Hong Kong S.A.R of China

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Re:X1 Yoga Gen6 show color segment/banding on youtube video when windows HDR is ON

2021-06-11, 12:39 PM

Hello Andy, 

 

Thanks for responding and asking for technical support. It is good to know that I'm not alone.

 

As first I also thought that SDR content on HDR display will be like this.

However, I got a HDR monitor recently and hook up with my PC with GTX1060. They also run in 10bit. There is no issue at all. This make me raise the issue.

 

Indeed, "SDR on HDR" does not explain for

a. PC GTX1060+HDR monitor has no issue.

b. resizing the video frame size "fix" the problem

c. setting different windows scaling % "fix" the problem

d. putting Intel Command Center on top of the video frame "fix" the problem

e. Battery mode always has problem. Cannot be "fixed" using scaling. It means that the behaviour is different between plugged in and battery mode.

f. Plug in two external monitor (DP + HDMI) + internal monitor "fix" the problem

 

This make me raise the questions.

1. Is this a problem with X1 Yoga?

2. Is this a problem with Intel Iris Xe inside X1 Yoga?

 

May I know the graphics system that you take the picture? Is it also Intel Iris Xe? Is it also a Lenovo machine?

 

It will be grateful if Lenovo engineering can step in and repeat my experiment so as to isolate the problem and eventually find out the bug.

Characteristics (d) (e) (f) points to some kind of state switching are associated with problem.

 

Regards,

carson945

 

 

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91 Posts

08-15-2017

Netherlands

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Re:X1 Yoga Gen6 show color segment/banding on youtube video when windows HDR is ON

2021-06-12, 13:39 PM

@Andy_Lenovo 

 

Thanks for looking into this. But your explanation (= the engineers explanation) is incorrect given all the details above.

 

On X1Y3 I see banding regardeless of the HDR mode windows is in.

 

This goes much deeper.

 

Could be (at least on my X1Y3):

 

Bios:

Panel Color Depth

One Of Option: 18 Bit, Value (8 bit): 0x0 (default) {09 07 E2 12 30 00 00}

One Of Option: 24 Bit, Value (8 bit): 0x1 18 Bit, Value (8 bit)

 

Intel Display driver issue (most likely see above)

Intel PAPV chain issue (= driver issue see above)

 

or somethinge else prohibiting the full RGB range and forcing dithering instead.

 

Would appreciate if you could have them look a little deeper and keep us updated.

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11799 Posts

09-04-2014

Slovakia

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Re:X1 Yoga Gen6 show color segment/banding on youtube video when windows HDR is ON

2021-06-21, 9:38 AM

Hello,

 

Thanks for the feedback which I had passed on last week and can confirm that engineering is looking deeper into the issue reported. In the mean time they have provided me with the following to help mitigate the issue, perhaps you would like to try it and provide your feedback?

 

1. Open Control Panel
2. Select Display
3. Use HDR On
4. Enter Windows HD Color settings
5. Select Optimize for image quality (Just in case)
6. Slide HDR/SDR brightness balance to 100(banding is most significant at 0)

 

banding

 

Andy

 

Community Administrator
Lenovo eServices

Please remember to come back and mark the post that you feel solved your question as the solution, it earns the member + points 
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08-15-2017

Netherlands

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Re:X1 Yoga Gen6 show color segment/banding on youtube video when windows HDR is ON

2021-06-24, 14:29 PM

@Andy_Lenovo 

 

Thanks for keeping this "alive"

 

Regarding engineer's suggestions:

1: It's what it is, only a "mitigation"

2: It doesn't work at all


I even set the colordepth in the Intel Control Panel to "full" ("Gesamt" german version here on the screenshot).

 

 

As I already mentioned, This is a much deeper problem plaguing me right from the start (back in 2018 when I first bought my X1Y3).

The fact that this is still an issue 3 generations later, well is pointing out exactly that.


As for carson945's problem with Battery Mode:

There is a suspicious registry setting: ExtremeBatteryLife ChangeColorDepth 1


The Power Manager driver is f*ck*d up in so many ways...

Bloated, one solution for every series, buggy, unnescessary (as if Windows couldn't handle Powermanagement itself). But that's another story...

 

Back to the topic:

I's till believe the culprit is a driver problem located somewhere between the Intel Graphics driver or Windows itself.

The above (excellent) findings from carson945 show that. 

In his case it's no hardware issue if you can move windows and the banding dissapears.

 

Intel is giving not much infos on this see above:

On our current driver implementation, the color depth will be set per the OS configuration.


In my case with the X1Y3 I'm not so sure if the engineers capped the colorbit depth willingly in bios (for eDP bandwith reasons?)

 

I never got rid of banding in 3 years and many, many attempts.

 

It's just frustrating...

 

 

I'm interested in any info that's not just stating "works as expected" or "current limitation" or "works as designed", because it's not.

 

Thanks

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06-05-2021

Hong Kong S.A.R of China

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Re:X1 Yoga Gen6 show color segment/banding on youtube video when windows HDR is ON

2021-07-12, 17:36 PM

Hello Andy,

 

Any update on this issue?

 

I've some update to the findings.

 

1. Color segmenting/banding is related to Windows scaling and Chrome scaling.

I previously reported that 250% full screen has no banding. However, I found that this depends on the magnification in Chrome. Yes, magnifcation even in full screen mode. The video frame is about the same size with slight variation. The title text and control button will change in size.

 

When windows magnification is 250%, the chrome magnification that result in no banding are 50%, 67%, 75%, 80%, 100%, 150%, 175%, 200%. Chrome magnification result in banding are 90%, 110%, 125%.

 

When windows magnifcation is 225%, the chrome magnification that result in no banding are 80%, 110%, 125%, 150%, 175%, 200%. Chrome magnification result in banding are 50%, 67%, 75%, 90%, 100%.

 

2. Turning off GPU acceleration in Chrome advanced setting result in no banding.

There is a switch in Chrome that switch On/Off GPU acceleration. After turning OFF GPU acceleration, the problem is gone.

Chrome menu (the 3 dots)/Settings/Advanced/System/Use hardware acceleration when available/OFF.

The CPU usage is in the 10-20% and GPU will be very low after switching OFF the option as CPU is used instead of GPU for rendering.

 

3. I found that Samsung Galaxy Book Pro with i5-1135G7 with Iris Xe also also has color segmenting/banding.

 

 

4. I found that ASUS Zenbook flip S UX371EA with i7-1165G7 with Iris Xe graphics does NOT has color segment/banding issue.

Color segment/banding is NOT observable even though it appears to my eyes that it have slightly minor un-smooth in color grading. I failed to make color segmenting/banding with changing windows scaling, chrome scaling, window resizing.  I've also verified HDR is ON and Chrome GPU acceleration is ON.

 

I took a look at the driver information. The driver is 27.20.100.9365. Dated 10/March/2021. 

I found this driver on ASUS website. https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/nb/Image/Driver/Graphics/22834/Graphic_IGCC_DCH_Intel_Z_V27.20.10...

However, I'm unable to install it. The installation program is slightly different from the Lenovo one which is the same as generic Intel one. After installation is finished and rebooted, nothing is changed. I tried a few times and even uninstalled the graphics driver until the generic VGA driver is used before installation. However, I got the same result.

 

When I take a closer look at the extacted driver package files, the folder structure is a little bit different from the Intel one and some files size differs a lot from the intel ones while some is missing. (minictadriver 262KB vs intel one 29KB, iigd_dch asus 1119kB vs intel 680kB , INSTALL.BAT absent in Intel one).

 

It looks like that ASUS somehow fixed the issue and packaged their own version.  

 

Monitor driver is PnP monitor. Microsoft 10.0.19041.488. Dated 21/June/2006. I installed the monitor driver for my machine. No change to the problem. Note that the monitor is not at vibrant as the Lenovo or Samsung ones. Don't  know whether it is related to the fix or not. 

 

I tested color management and change it to sRGB. However, no difference is found.

 

Please ask development team to take a look at the driver files as it might have hints to solve the issue.

 

Regards,

carson945

 

 

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