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228 Posts

01-07-2009

Gainesville Florida USA

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Re: X220 cpu throttling problem

2011-07-15, 1:50 AM

I am this close to saying goodbye Lenovo after decades of IBM PCs.  We'll see.

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769 Posts

08-07-2010

United States of America

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Re: X220 cpu throttling problem

2011-07-15, 2:23 AM

wrote:

I am this close to saying goodbye Lenovo after decades of IBM PCs.  We'll see.


I am this close to saying way way over the top. :)

John   [tips]   ThinkPad T470p:
Win8.1Pro64 | i7-7820HQ | 32GB | 512GB SSD | WQHD | AC | BT | Cam | FR
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11 Posts

07-04-2011

Between Winchester & Petersfield, Hampshire UK

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Re: X220 cpu throttling problem

2011-07-15, 9:04 AM

wrote:

Granted I'm a few pages stale in this conversation but here's where we are.

 

I've seen the new bios for the perma throttle issue and it's going through release now. As I've mentioned before, we used the setup described in this thread to repro the issue so thanks for that. The updated BIOS (yes it's a BIOS update) will go through our release process which involves quality testing before it hits the web. Although I'm not in this group directly, the BIOS will be on the web soon.

 

Second, on the throttling issue overall. These improvements are still going through trials but the results have much improved performance. This will be a second BIOS update but it is in the works. The perma-throttle fix will be released first.


Excellent news.

 

Coming from another manufacturer and having experienced their 'support', it does seem that this is being handled really well by Lenovo.  Impressed that it's acknowledged and that this and other relatively minor (but potentially annoying) issues are getting fixed with regular BIOS updates.

  

S

Stephen
ThinkPad x220 CTO / i7 / 8GB / SSD
Residence Interior Design Hampshire - http://www.residenceinteriordesign.com
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32 Posts

06-03-2011

UK

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Re: X220 cpu throttling problem

2011-07-15, 11:48 AM

Agreeing there 100% with Stephen. Lenovo is handling this very well!

 

Gundy 

X220 4286 CTO, i7-2620M, 8GB RAM (2x4), 320GB HDD+Intel mSATA 80 GB, IPS display, BT 3.0, Intel 6205 WiFi, Finger Print Reader, Win7 Pro 64
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4 Posts

06-25-2011

United States

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Re: X220 cpu throttling problem

2011-07-16, 1:42 AM

"Thanks!

Appreciate you keeping us posted.
Will the mSATA fix be in the 1st or 2nd BIOS update?"

 

Maybe.  See this thread:

 

http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/X-Series-ThinkPad-Laptops/X220-with-USB3-0-no-mSata-SSD-possible/m-p/480793#M27403

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54 Posts

06-22-2011

Germany

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Re: X220 cpu throttling problem

2011-07-17, 0:13 AM

interesting to read about the BIOS Updates. Kudos for working at it, but, that is the manufacturer's duty!

 

What I keep wondering though. If the power supply just doesn't provide enough juice, how could any Software/BIOS Update ever reduce the power necessary for the same task running WITHOUT reducing performance. That just sounds illogical!

It seems to me that, if it really is a PSU issue, the only fix should be to exchange the PSUs with stronger ones!

 

Decreasing performance certainly is not acceptable, on battery yes, but not when attached to an outlet PSU.

 

Since I have no inside into the cause of the problem but the comments of the staff members here, I can only hope Lenovo agrees. Just saying:

If the engineers underestimated the power necessary to drive these CPUs, they should definitely admit their fault and provice proper PSUs to the buyer and NOT go and lessen performance to make up for their mistake.

 

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6 Posts

07-17-2011

Netherlands

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Re: X220 cpu throttling problem

2011-07-17, 17:14 PM

I have the very same problem with the much weaker Lenovo Edge 15 (NVLGSMH). I understand this is not the right place regarding my laptop, but perhaps it'd help engineers to know what they're dealing with. And frankly, I'd like a solution as well.

 

2x2GB ram + 9 cell (or slightly rarer, 6 cell) battery + connected to 65w AC = throttling issue. 

 

http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-Edge/Problem-with-Lenovo-Edge-15-CPU-combined-when-charging-on-A-C/td-p/483825

 

Will the upcoming bios update also be applicable to my Edge 15? 

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769 Posts

08-07-2010

United States of America

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Re: X220 cpu throttling problem

2011-07-17, 21:45 PM

wrote:

interesting to read about the BIOS Updates. Kudos for working at it, but, that is the manufacturer's duty!

What I keep wondering though. If the power supply just doesn't provide enough juice, how could any Software/BIOS Update ever reduce the power necessary for the same task running WITHOUT reducing performance. That just sounds illogical!

It seems to me that, if it really is a PSU issue, the only fix should be to exchange the PSUs with stronger ones!

Decreasing performance certainly is not acceptable, on battery yes, but not when attached to an outlet PSU.

Since I have no inside into the cause of the problem but the comments of the staff members here, I can only hope Lenovo agrees. Just saying:

If the engineers underestimated the power necessary to drive these CPUs, they should definitely admit their fault and provice proper PSUs to the buyer and NOT go and lessen performance to make up for their mistake.


"There is no magic."© All a BIOS fix can do is improve throttling to minimize performance issues within the available power budget. Apparently the only real solution to worst case performance is to get the 90W AC adapter. Lenovo should have disclosed from the get go that worst case performance requires the 90W AC adapter, not just the smaller and lighter 65W adapter, and should have made the 90W AC adapter an option during checkout instead of just an add-on accessory. I think most buyers would still prefer the smaller and lighter 65W adapter (as I do), but obviously not all. Under the circumstances, I think Lenovo should offer a substantial discount coupon on the purchase of a 90W AC adapter (say $30 off with free shipping) to prior X220 purchasers.

John   [tips]   ThinkPad T470p:
Win8.1Pro64 | i7-7820HQ | 32GB | 512GB SSD | WQHD | AC | BT | Cam | FR
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54 Posts

06-22-2011

Germany

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Re: X220 cpu throttling problem

2011-07-18, 0:23 AM

I find it under no circumstances acceptable that they promote a certain CPU, which almost directly translates for computing power and then do not provide a proper PSU to power this CPU at its intended specs.

As you said, especially for the ones purchasing an Ultrabase for desktop usage + another 65W PSU, they should at least offer a free exchange towards the 90W power supply. I have an Ultrabase + 65W PSU on order going to be delivered soon. Can't believe the PSU is underpowered although they clearly recommend it.

 

Again, I don't see how a Bios Update could cause the CPU to consume less power WITHOUT decreasing performance and THAT as a solution to the problem would be even more unacceptable. If they miscalculated the power need for the hardware, they should replace the power supplies, everything else would just not be right, artificially decreasing CPU performance most certainly is not.

 

Looking forward to a detailed explanation.

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4 Posts

06-25-2011

United States

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Re: X220 cpu throttling problem

2011-07-18, 5:54 AM

This particular problem might not necessarily be a 65W vs 90W power issue, but a matter of the "nuts and bolts" of power management at either the chipset, BIOS, or software level.  Total system power draw, during intensive CPU+GPU loads, is peaking over 65 watts, causing the locked throttling.  It could be that power management can be set up, at such times, to draw power from both the battery and AC adapter, which would be sustainable as long as, at full utilization of system resources at TDP, did not peak above 65W for too much of the time, not allowing the battery to charge.

 

Then again, it might be that full utilization of system resources, along with battery charging, can't be accomplished on only the 90W adapter.

 

IMHO, Leno's holding off on simply sending out 90W adapters to all (and it would need to be all or none) X220 owners, makes sense, and is good customer service.  I think that this is more than just Lenovo trying to save a few bucks.  I want their engineers to thoroughly understand the problem rather than rushing out a fix that only solves half the problem or causes more problems.  And I for one, want to keep my lighter 65W adapter if Lenovo can find an acceptable fix in a timely matter.

 

Of course, it would have been better if there had been no locked throttling problem to begin with.

 

I still believe the X220 is an exceptional laptop, albeit one with a couple of teething pains.

 

 

 

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