[Quote] "So if you can afford to wait 6 months to a year for a Helix with Haswell, you should.  If you need a laptop now and decide to wait for Haswell, you're playing the same game as someone who waits for prices to come down. Guess what - prices are always coming down, new technology is always coming out, and if you keep waiting to get a better price or for the next generation of technology, you'll never be happy because there's always something cheaper and better "right around the door."

- I agree with this to some extent, but there are certain innovations that revolutionize a category (IPS displays, loss of DVD drive, 3G, weight, battery life).  Some of these might be worth waiting for.  I agree that the Helix is an awesome piece, and if it were 1lb lighter and has 3G and a good battery, it'll be my next laptop for the next 3-4 years.  That said, I will wait, because the current offerings are not significant enough an upgrade (much like X1 Carbon- it was nicknamed the X1 Concession).  But  that's assuming Haswell is that revolutionary. 

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wrote:

Obviously, I'm not trying to make your buying decisions for you.  I'm just pointing out that the vast majority of those who buy a laptop buy the one that best meets their needs at the time they make the decision, and a healthy number also look ahead maybe a few months - but it's a rare person who starts shopping for their next laptop six months in advance. You and I do, but most people don't.

 

And your comment about buying a laptop, having it break, and throwing it away is revealing - and demonstrates the binary thinking of someone who looks upon a laptop as a commodity that is either working or not working, ignoring the more significant matters of reliability and dependability (i.e. wanting to MINIMIZE the possibility that a laptop will die right when you need it most), usability (how much time do you have to spend on maintenance, upkeep, and down time), functionality (how convenient it is to use, with niceties and design that make a huge difference) and the simple joys of ownership.  Most ThinkPad buyers keep buying ThinkPads for good reasons.  Over the 25 years I've been using laptops, I've owned and used 3 Dells, a Macbook Pro, a Gateway, a Sharp, 2 HPs, a Toshiba, 4 IBMs, and 4 Lenovos -  and for the time being, until something changes, the ThinkPad product line has been and remains far and away superior to everything else out there in terms of overall reliability, usability, durability, innovation, convenience, warranty support, and value (bang for the buck).  Go ahead and argue with me - it won't change the facts of my personal experience, and I doubt you have anywhere near the experience I've had with anywhere near as many laptops as I've had.  So the reason I'm responding to your perspective is because I'd hate people to rely on your misguided conclusions and wait months, finally settling for the first hybrid to come out with a Haswell, and then end up with so much less than they could have had now (or soon), all things considered, with a state-of-the-art Helix.

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I'm going to try and navigate through some of the personal stuff here...

I understand the loyalty to brand based on quality of product, and the importance of product reliability, but that wasn't my point - it was a hypothetical regarding whether or not the level of quality justified the level of delay when considering the level of cost; pros and cons. If anything I'd spent a few hurdred to thousands of dollars on broke on me I'd be very upset for a number of reasons, but my point is more that for a smart consumer they'd likely shop around and would get a better deal for their money with a machine that was more than likely just as reliable on a general basis as a ThinkPad product for half the cost, where as an impulse consumer would likely not even know the Helix was slated to debut at all.

For those vast majority of consumers who buy a machine that best meets their needs - the Helix is not available, whereas competitors who have the same functionality, and in some cases, more, are already on the market. What I'm saying is that by the time the Helix is readily available, in stores or through their website, there may potentially a newer, better competitor model available and Lenovo is losing potential customers for the Helix - if the Helix has nothing new to offer now against its contemporaries, what will it have to offer next month?

This brings us to the Lenovo Quality - is it more reliable? Lenovo has not shown that thus far, other than their reliability in delaying the product. Better durability? There have been reports of machines overheating out of the box, loud fans, too much flex on keyboards, screen-door effect, and some other stuff I'm not going to bother looking up. Convenience? The machine is barely available and is running similar hardware and software to other products that are readily available. Innovation? There is nothing innovative about the Helix aside from the very loud fans that throttle the processor and allow overheating anyway. Warranty support? Some Dell products are supported absolutely to the point of repair or replacement with equal or better parts. Value? Double the cost and not available.

Now, I'm not saying the Helix is a bad product, after all its been my first choice for several months now, and thats for a reason, but I'm just trying to point out that all companies have their flaws and failures, and while personal experience can be important, it does not negate certain happenings.

On the personal, I personally get very attached to my computers (and devices), having named and customized each and every one I've ever owned in the past 20 years, both cosmetically and from within, and its ironic you would comment on my binary thinking, considering the extensive list of products you've worked your way through, but at the end of the day, its a cost-benefit thing, and my personal thinking, which is, for the record "I want one," has nothing to do with whether or not it's a good idea.

Overall, if it came out tomorrow with WWAN, I'd be likely to buy one, but as each day passes and each feature disappears, that becomes less likely given the circumstances and competitors, and that's from someone who has been waiting months for this machine. Most consumers are likely not going to be waiting around that long.

I don't know who you are, but you just lost all credibility with me. What you're saying about the Helix is patent nonsense - the kind of things I would expect a competitor to spout off about.  I've been using one for 3 weeks now, and what you say about it is simply false.  Only one of my Helix buyers (out of 40) got a DOA. That's more than I'd like, but it's nothing  like what you describe.

I should have recognized in the first place that you're just spreading FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt) and ignored you in the first place. But this last post of yours gives up your game. Do you own a Helix? No? Then why are you spreading misinformation, rumor, and isolated experience about it?  What's your real name?  I use my real name as my handle, so you can easily check me out. I stand behind my high opinion of ThinkPads with extensive experience and facts - and I've only been selling them in the past six months while I've been a technology consumer and even expert for 25 - 30 years.

Like they say, you may be entitled to your own opinion, but you're not entitled to your own facts. And if I were in your shoes, I would not be concealing my identity and agenda while bashing a product based on shallow judgments, hearsay, and no experience.

I'll respond when you stop throwing up gorilla dust and start making good points backed by fact and experience.  Somehow I don't think that'll be happening...lol

I don't think he is bashing the Helix, Dave. He even states that he likes this device, has been waiting it for months, and may order one tomorrow if its available. I think he tries to be as objective as he can, as a person who doesn't own an Helix (and I don't state whether he is right or not about the limits of the Helix he rose, I don't own one myself, although mine is ordered). He rose both qualities and weaknesses, and I don't think he is trying to bash the Helix, seriously.

All in all, I'd say that I agree with him on several points, yet I have an Helix ordered and I don't regret this order. I think we can like the Helix enough to buy one and still be cautious about the hype around it. We could just be blind because we finally got our Helix after months of impatience. It doesn't mean all putative weaknesses are true, of course not all are true, they're putative. But it means that although we consider buying the Helix (either we do buy it or we don't, the most important thing is to consider it as the device we need, and to follow it since weeks/months), we can (should) criticize and remain cautious. It is not a big deal just not excusing all these delays just because Lenovo comes with renown after-sale support and build quality.

I still think the Helix is a great device, though I'd have many requests if Lenovo offered deep customizations options because I don't think it's perfect (I'd take several features of the Kupa X15 and North Cape prototype). I don't have my hands on mine yet, but I know this is a device I like, yet I do agree with him on several points. I don't think there is much distance between his opinion and mine, just a few details that sealed the deal or not, so I don't see any "FUD" in his last post. It's actually good to have a debate and to be open minded about the Helix, especially as I think both your positions come with solid arguments here. No need for real names to debate.

(Just my opinion, don't overreact please!)

I'm going to have to agree with him too, so he is obviously not some "competitor" trying to start something on a Lenovo message board.  Many of us have been eyeing Lenovo machines for almost a year now. 

- I owned a X1 Carbon and returned it because even after insane delays, it was further neutered (screen door, no Verizon 3G, horrible quality control issues).  RETURNED (though they let me use it for 3-4 months)

- I then waited for a X1 Carbon Touch because a Lenovo executive ASSURED me it would be IPS.  NO IPS. RETURNED

- Eyed the Helix.  The Helix was revolutionary (IN JANUARY).  Now, due to ridiculous delays, the gap between the Helix and other machines will likely close, so something I was excited about back in Jan, then in Mar, and now in May/June, is a lot less exciting.   

Do I enjoy sitting here for almost a year to get a dream laptop.  Of course not.  But as I said before, there are some serious technology changes going on that might be worth the wait (IPS, 3G, weight, battery life, functional convertibles). 

That said, I have no desire to go off-topic, but would love to hear what other people that are sick of Lenovo's delays are currently eyeing. 

I'm OK with you guys trying to super-optimize the $1K - $2K you're going to spend this year on the best laptop you can find. That's your business, and I even appreciate you sharing what you're looking for. But don't try to pass off speculation, hearsay, critiques with no grounding in fact or experience, and opinion as the truth and expect me to be nice in my response. I'm fiercely loyal to my customers, quality, and the truth - and NOT to anyone who is obviously moaning and complaining about other people's choices and spreading horse manure around as if it were air freshener.

I just had a gut-level angry reaction to 1) the disservice done to potential readers who might give credence to someone calling anyone buying a Helix right now "crazy," and 2) listing a bunch of bogus "problems" with the Helix to bolster the argument that people should wait.  That's just wrong.

I'm not the least bit concerned about selling every single one of the Helix systems I have in stock. I bought every single one of them I could (54 of them) over the past few weeks, and have sold all of them except the one I'm using, a few demo (PDP/TAP) models, and 14 still left in stock - and I've only been selling them on eBay and Amazon at premium prices. I've never seen systems move so fast at full price.

The Helix is a great system - so what if they can't make them fast enough? It's been that way with every great product breakthrough I can remember, dating back to the IBM PC. If you don't want a Helix, by all means, just go buy something else, but for heaven's sake PLEASE don't buy one from me!  I enjoy helping my customers get a good deal on a great system, and I don't like working with people who howl at the moon and whine over the way things are.

I just think it's irresponsible, inconsiderate, and downright arrogant to try to tell other people (who don't know as much about technology and trust comments that they read here) that they're crazy to buy a Helix or that something better is coming just around the corner.

The Helix is here. Now. It's fresh, fun, and meets a serious need for those of us tired of lugging around a laptop AND an iPad or other tablet, who want an all-day battery.  Who needs built-in 3G where you have to pay Verizon or AT&T a monthly fee when you already have a 4G smartphone you can use as a hotspot? If Lenovo didn't design it to your exact specifications and can't make them fast enough to suit you, get over it and move on to a company that suits you better. Most of us Helix owners are really enjoying our systems - so how about you let us continue to enjoy the party without trying to relieve yourself into the pool, if you know what I mean...

Moderator comment: Regarding the idea of starting a new, non-specific Helix thread, the guidelines are to stay on-topic within threads. Doing so aids specific discussions, allows members to search for and efficiently find relevant information, and facilitates accurate indexing of information, both here and via external search engines. Therefore, please try to keep threads on-topic, rather than widely generalistic.

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Thank you.

Edit: typo.