Buyer Beware! - Your power adapter may be cheating you! [ Editado ]

[wjli2]

Your Point is that Lenovo Cheated you for not having provided the 90 W power supply to everyone??? and lenovo support don't really care about your problem??? I guess those buying the Thinkpads equipped with 65 W aren't that worried that their laptop is not getting 100% performance when its supplied by AC power alone........ Kudo to you for finding it out, maybe Lenovo could state that in their support sites or just give everyone 90 W power supply... but i don't think the way you did it, was correct..... you clearly neglected the comments made by others whom stated this is a minor engineering oversight, in the other forums you posted in....

Message Edited by wjli2 on 05-08-2008 02:07 PM

[jtran]

If your purpose is just to inform people of the situation that may arise when you run an X61 tablet on AC power with no battery, then you've accomplished your task.  It's up to them whether they want to do anything about it.  If it's a problem for them, they know now and they'll complain.  Otherwise, it's just a FYI for them.

I think other members are just trying to inform people of the other side of the story, which just so happens to clash with your side.  Nobody is saying that you're wrong.  Personally, the AC power with no battery situation doesn't affect me because I never use my laptop that way, and I think that is the case with a lot of other members.

[ibm]

What was stated on other sites was for people who read those sites. The links were provided here, so that means everyone here got to read that information. I do not need to copy all that information to this forum. There were a number of people who said they feel shortchanged and that this practice is simply wrong.

Someone's opinion does not count as general opinion. If this was a minor oversight, try and calculate the number of orders Lenovo lost as a result of people being deterred at the news of engineering oversight and the total refusal of the company to deal with the issue. Try and tell that to your Sales director.

How are you helping exactly? No need to answer.

I never said Lenovo should provide the 90W adapter to everyone. What is wrong with you? Can you actually read?
I said Lenovo should provide an option to chose the type of AC adapter and to clearly specify the difference between them (mentioning this issue).

And again with the word "maybe"... ? You make me repeat the same information over and over again. Because you do not understand what the issue is, what was discussed here and in other forums, you clearly are not fit for the position of adviser. Please stop posting to this forum.

[erik]

ibm - your condescending attitude is completely unnecessary.   members here have acknowledged your results and replied with collected commentary, only to be slapped in the face for not providing you with the answers in which you expect.   this is a public forum and opinions won't always coincide with yours or anyone else's.   if someone asks you a specific question and you do not address it then you should expect the same slack as you are dishing out.   realizing this and acting accordingly would help others take you more seriously.   your negative attitude isn't gaining you any ground.

if your intent is to bring forth an issue then please do so without belittling others.

[wjli2]

well i don't know how many people have actually deterred by the fact that can't reach full speed on their laptop when running with AC-adapter minus the battery..... so are many people deterred that cars can't run full speed on space saver wheels???? If they are that worried about this setup maybe they should change it to 90 W power adapter and just leave it to that, but i think you have some other purposes other than to inform, only you would know what your true purpose of these posts are..........

If the lenovo never knew about the problem, i guess they can't really put it up on their support website stating the issue and its fix.....

[ibm]

There is a big difference between not providing an answer and lying or saying someone said something when they did not. If I missed or did not answer a question, maybe it was because I did not have the answer... or maybe it was an oversight. Does this sound familiar? People with a little sense of humor will get this.

If you slap someone in the face, and wrongfully accuse him/her for something they actually did not do, expect to bear the consequences. Reactions may vary.

[Mark_Lenovo · Accepted solution]

ibm,

I've looked into this matter with engineering, and the behavior you have observed is actually a design point of the system.  The system is working as it was designed.   Let me explain....

The tablet was designed to function while docked on the slice, and run on battery or AC with the 65 watt adapter.  Between the slice and the tablet, there are 7 USB ports.  If you add up the total system power draw, calculating in the maximum draw on all the ports, maximum CPU + DVD read/write access, etc could exceed 65 watts in a peak.  Under normal usage scenarios, which the system is anticipated to operate in, the battery is in circuit and provides a buffer to help the system manage the peaks of power demand.   If the battery is removed, and run with the 65W adapter only, the system will throttle the CPU to ensure there is adequate headroom to absorb the power draw of a fully loaded USB configuration on the dock.   If the system did not do this, and exceeded the total wattage available, the system would shut down and data loss could result.   Lenovo designed the power management to protect the user from this condition.

The 65W adapter was selected as the base config adapter as it is about 75%-80% of the size and weight of the 90W adapter, and provides a smaller and lighter adapter profile with the traveler in mind.  

The anticipated usage model, is with the battery installed in the system.   Users who are concerned about optimizing battery life while keeping it in circuit can adjust the charging start and stop thresholds to keep the battery in around the 40% range which is proven to be the optimum charge level for long term storage.

[wjli2]

case closed.......

[thommango]

Hi IBM,

I don't doubt your findings, and I think they are very interesting. I'm wondering what sort of results you would get from similar tests with the battery still connected.   Your first note mentioned that the battery acts like a capacitor, providing energy when the CPU needs it. Would the combination of 65w power supply + battery make for results comparable to the 90w tests? 

If so, I think I prefer the 65w power supply.  My system only ever uses maximum CPU speed for short bursts of time anyways, so I would actually prefer that the system draw peak power needs from the battery than require me carry a more sizable power supply around.  Think of it as a hybrid vehicle. 

[ibm]

Who accepted this as a solution? This does not solve anything.
The fact remains... Lenovo does not warn people about these shortcomings. People cannot use their tablets at full performance without plugging in their battery.

Moreover, according to another OP, Lenovo has already started to replace adapters at no extra cost. Normally you do that if you acknowledge a mistake.

Quote: "I called Lenovo Canada regarding this issue and they pleasantly agreed to send me a 90W adapter at no charge  I got the adapter today."

How do you explain that? This causes a precedent, and as a result, any refusal to replace adapters due to this issue, will be considered discrimination.

Lenovo has not honored the contract, as far as I am concerned, and their complaint department people are not replying to my messages. I have no choice but to resort to higher authorities.