04-19-2012 10:19 PM
My S10 came configured with only a rear case fan. When the AC isn't running it gets darned hot in my studio - 33-35C at times (91-95F) and the hotter it is in here the hotter my machine runs. Bear in mind I am long out of warranty here...
Now, I know the chasis is designed for 24/7 type operation (and it often does) but I have to say this bugger is a bit noisy and more so since I added a front case fan I scavenged (don't ask unless you want to talk WD ShareSpace !@#!@#!@$%^$): there's enough noise in my life that I'd like to quiet down my quiet space, which is where I work. Fan noise is the only beef I've ever had with my S10 ;-).
The CPU spikes at times into the high 50s and I want to cool the whole box down so, if possible, I don't run more than ambient air temperature (I know, I'm asking alot and maybe howling at the moon here).
What I have planned is to:
1] replace the scavenged front case fan with an Arctic PWM
2] replace the rear case fan with an Arctic PWM
3] install an Arctic Freezer 7 PRO Rev. 2 CPU cooler (which will fit my current E6850 and pending upgrade to QX9650): I run some huge files in Excel, Access and ArcGIS and as we all know Adobe anything is resource hungry. I often peg the E6850 and when I do the temps shoot up
4] lace all the fans together with an Arctic PMW 1-4 4-pin splitter (so I can set temp targets with SpeedFan), and
5] possibly add a 120mm Arctic MODEL to the access panel to increase airflow since I am adding the Icy Box Duo in the 5.25" bay and concerned about heat piling up in the top front of the case (my middle HDD runs from 7-10C higher than the lowest drive and from 4-7C above the upper drive: the new drive bay will of course be above them) - but this may be over the top and a tad insane to add the 120mm?
I consult half time and Dad half time (our son is 8.5 months + raucous) and we're in no position to make any mammoth upgrades (like a D30 someone mentioned recently...Erik ;-) in the near to mid-term. My machine is rock solid but I didn't go for the max configuration when I bought (we couldn't afford it then either) figuring I could always upgrade the chasis. Mostly it's about taking care of what I have and with the CPU going up to something I've coveted for years and would make my work life just a bit smoother and faster I figure: if I can squeeze another 4-5 years out of this baby then it will have equalled my best Mac (oh for the good old dayz).
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04-20-2012 06:59 AM - edited 04-20-2012 07:04 AM
as i'm sure you're aware, 33-35C ambient temps are the underlying issue.
keeping in mind that my college thermodynamics course is a bit fuzzy, heat or noise will need to be sacrificed given the limitations. adding fans and/or increasing airflow will convect heat better but the air itself will still be the same temperature. even a chassis with nothing but 120mm fans would have to run fast to move enough air to cool things down, again introducing the noise factor.
starting off with hot air means everything is hotter. there's no getting around that.
i can't say with any certainty that swapping your fans will work. you might get the system to run cooler but it will likely be noisier. without actually trying it first-hand, it's impossible to say. the BIOS expects certain fans and is built around specific fan values (ie: voltage, RPM, and resulting airflow). changing the fans from those insalled as original equipment introduces unpredictable variables. the noise you're getting from the WD sharespace fan is but one example. not all fans have the same acoustics or spin at the same RPM at a given voltage. that fan might be noisy due to being spun too fast at idle voltage or it's noisy because your room is hot and the BIOS is driving it faster on purpose. again, variables.
on a maxed-out S10 there should be an 80mm fan attached to the back of the hard drive array, 92mm fans at the front and rear of the case, one on the CPU (120mm, if i recall), and one on your video card. that's five total. these should be more than enough to cool a system given reasonable ambient temps.
about all i can personally recommend is installing the proper factory fans and turning on your AC or dealing with the noise. perhaps someone else will come along with other ideas.
04-20-2012 08:30 AM
Thx again Erik: the CPU fan is 92mm as well unless my eyes deceive. Sounds like the bottomline is best to max out the "box stock" options - to use auto mechanic terms - and order in the 92mm fan for the case front along with the 80mm for the drive array. And I take it you don't recommend using aCPU cooler at all - correct? Hugh
04-20-2012 09:30 AM
yeah, 92mm on the CPU. it's the same size as my C20. not sure what i was thinking there.
by "CPU cooler" are you referring to an aftermarket heatsink? if so then you probably aren't going to improve much over factory—at best maybe by a few degrees. the original heatsinks are surprisingly efficient for the size. something larger might help (perhaps a 120mm would fit in that case) but you'll still have the ambient temp issue to contend.
i'd go one step at a time. get the proper 80 + 92mm fans for the front of the case and see where that takes your temps. if you still feel hot air blowing out the back of the case then check the CPU physically and feel if it's a direct cause of the temps. if so then that's when you could explore a different/larger CPU heatsink/fan assembly. if not then turn on your AC if possible.
04-20-2012 06:31 PM
Judging by your reply volume and the depth of it Erik, I think you can be forgiven misplacing a fan size here and there in the course of your busy day without qualms
BTW is the the proper 3-pin header for the front case fan the one labeled 'PCI fan' (about a thrid of the way back, lower edge of the mainboard)? There is a 2nd one on the case front end which I would assume is for the 80mm drive array fan but never hurts to check.
I did some stress testing (stresscpu.exe and letting the room be ambient temp as we often have brownouts in the summer and no power off the grid - with the generator AC is not an option) and was watching the apparent relationship between load and temperature. Some of my Excel and ArGIS files load the CPU into the 75%-max range if I have any other programs open (typically Firefox and Outlook) and the temps seem to go up accordingly.
My assumption (not having had a thermodynamics class) was that, not unlike an engine you've done some moderate tweaking with, the higher the revs the greater the need for cooling and a balance has to be maintained in the system. If you put a massive carb on an old V-8 but don't change the manifoild and tune the exhaust, maybe even put a mild cam in and fiddle with the distributor, you won't see any results except higher fuel consumption and massive carbon deposits. I imagine this analog to play against computers as well.
So for a 'soft' intervention I used SpeedFan to set target temps (35-50) for the CPU and that seems to help a bit under normal operations but under heavy load not really: and it would be part of the noisy fan matrix as well as having added the non-stock fan, I suppose. The core of the rationale (the rest is lust) for the QX 9650 is that it will not work as hard (less revs - like a big block V-8, more torque) and therefore run cooler - but again for me the science is lacking and my thinking could be very fuzzy. And the motorhead analogy could be total bunk. At any rate I'll order in the stock fans to max the chassis, upgrade the CPU as planned and if need be seek a heatsink cooler solution if indicated. As always, much appreciated.
04-20-2012 06:59 PM
the "PCI fan" header is as you suggest and for the front 92mm fan. it cools the PCI device channel (for the most part).
your engine to cooling analogy might be closer to installing a giant turbo with a tiny intercooler or having a full-on race engine and too small of a radiator. but, in the case of the S10, it's already built for maximum cooling potential given all tested and supported configurations (which in some instances would have been two FX 4600s, three HDDs, and a fast CPU). granted, this also would have shipped with three chassis fans but the potential is there.
if you're currently close to maxing out your dual-core CPU the a quad very well might make sense and run cooler due to distributing the load across more cores. oddly enough, the E5620 ran hotter in my C20 than my current X5675 and the latter has two more cores and a higher clock speed. go figure. TDP and clock speed don't always tell the full story. sometimes trial and error win over spec sheets.
04-20-2012 08:45 PM
Gotcha -I'll just simmer down and place a bit more trust in Lenovo engineering, make the planned fan/CPu/drive bay upgrades and see how the temps go. The 'max' issue raises a question about how far the chassis can be taken: if I read the Hardware Maintenance Manual for the S-10 series correctly it seems like the top model with the same chassis (drive bays elevated) would be the 6483; is that correct? And if I wanted to explore an incremental set of upgrades that would be the target? Be nice to run more than 8GB of RAM sometimes...
04-20-2012 08:52 PM
the machine type (6483, 6423, etc.) simply determines warranty entitlement, deployment locale, and the overall configuration pool. it's possible to have a 6423 spec'd higher than a 6483 or vice versa. in your case the fans for the 6423 are the same as the 6483. typically the only fan differences in most models are in CPU fansinks or heatsinks. high TDP CPUs always come with high-quality heatsinks.
04-24-2012 08:08 AM
I have no intention to hijack your thread but I have a D10 Thinkstation that I upgraded to 2 E5450 CPUs. Temps were a little high for my liking and under load the fans run pretty fast causing quite a bit of noise. The memory was also getting hot (up to 90-100 degrees). I decided to go with custom cooling and was able to fit 2 Thermalright Ultra-120 extreme (had to go with slim fans) and added a Zalman PCI bracket for the memory cooling and the system run very well. The total cost of the upgrade was under $100 and it now runs dead quiet and the CPU temps never reach 60 degrees C. The maximum memory temperature is around 80 C.
Hope this helps.