06-25-2012 04:27 AM
he has a Q600, not a Q6000. certainly you wouldn't want a $4000 GPU. $150 is a bit more reasonable.
i'd be curious if the Q2000D would work rather than the standard Q2000. by not having displayport it wouldn't use as much address space. the Q600 is a 1GB card with two display outputs (DP + DVI) and appears to work according to lead_org. the Q2000D is also 1GB with two display outputs (DVI + DVI).
but, i'd hate for you to spend money on a guess. i'm just thinking aloud here.
06-25-2012 04:53 AM
i think i'm going to try Mark_Lenovo's solution here http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkStation-Knowledge-Base/ThinkStation-S10-Mixing-2-different-graphic-... and see what happens before i throw up my hands - be great to get something definitive on this from the Lenovo folks before trying any returns/RMA ans such
06-25-2012 08:24 AM
If I could find a S10 that's in decent shape around here, I'd check it for you. Unfortunately, most of our S10s have been put out to pasture. If Lead Org was able to get a Q600 working in his S10, I would bet you can get either of the Q2000 or Q2000D working as well. The stuff mentioned in Mark's post about freeing up oprom space might help if you run into troubles. I'm willing to bet the oprom size of Q2000/D isn't that much different than the Q600.
06-25-2012 07:31 PM
psturtle, thx for the input here, much appreciated. i can't believe you folks don't have an S10 laying around. maybe you could gather the lot up and ship them to me for spares into the next decade? i just refurbished and things are running tip top - except this bliddy video card
so definitely have run into troubles and tried a cpl things now - but i just hate giving up without trying all possible options - esp if it means looking foolish on an RMA that's not a Monday item after all (i've never had a bad anything from nVidia and one card went thru 5 machines before it finally gave up the ghost).
anyway, soon as i get thru this sequence of knothole deadlines i'm going to try this oprom method and see what happens. i looked at the PEG setting but, since i was in BIOS and the family laptop was out i wasn't going to fool with it before having some clue what it might do
since i've become an activew tinkerer on my S10 i've dipped into alot of forums for this and that: this Lenovo forum is the best - thx to all of you who put in so much time and energy paying it forward
06-28-2012 11:06 AM
I so much feel what you feel at the moment, and the reason is simply because I have been through it myself a few months ago. Ordered a pricy GTX570 to be able to get maximum juice out of it's CUDA ability for editing on PremierePro, and came to the bitter truth about how poor has the BIOS been produced in the S10's.
However, I have good news for you, you just might not need to walk down the street of RMA! You will be suprised to know that that very same Q2000 which is being rejected by the motherboard on slot 1 & 2, will perfectly be working in slot number 4 (colored blue). You don't need to disable anything in the bios at all for this, the only disadvange obviously being the fact that you will be running on a 4x interface, instead of the greater 16x.
I had been running my S10+GTX combination in that way for a while until I decided that I'm not happy with the caped GPU performance and the fact the card was overhitting (due to very little space left down the case to suck fresh air) during intensive editing. So I went for a very cheap and easy solution! Found a cheap P5E3 Deluxe motherboard by Asus off ebay for €50 and sent my motherboard to hell!
But the story didn't end there, it has been some days ago when I decided not to give up on this free option rom address space story. I am currently together with some other bios modding forum members engaged in breaking down the separate rom modules in the bios to the grain, and squeeze out every tiny bit of free space there is available. Just for the kick of getting it done, really. If I succeed some day, who knows. At least I tried.
06-29-2012 03:01 AM
turned off absolutely everything i don't use in the BIOS, from password beep and fingerprint reader to i can't remember what: BIOS says i'm using 2/1098 MB total for devices. questions at this point:
1] what is the maximum allowable allocation for devises under the 2wjt47a BIOS?
2] if it would be relevant, is there a list anywhere of standard devices for an S10 642327a and how much ROM they occupy?
3] would it be possible to use the BIOS for a more hefty S10 configuration to try and attack the problem, or are they essentially the same?
then i tried the 'mixing 2 different graphics cards' solution to see if i could squeak the card in that way - no go - i left the video to PEG, left everything i had disabled disabled and had a clean reboot, reinstalled the nVidia 296.7 driver, all normal
i am thinking now to try:
1] uninstalling ALL of PCI-related devices with
2] uninstall the FX1700
3] disable all non-essential functions in the BIOS
from lead_org's input i would gather that if i can't get a workstation card functioning at that point i either need to beg a machine from someone to test the card or go ahead with an RMA
in a moment i thot ok, yeah, like Dutchice said, dump the motherboard!
but that's not my style - but this line of reasoning made me wonder what would be a maximum motherboard upgrade for the S10 chasis that is still on the 775 socket, since i just dropped a QX9650 in there and am quite happy with that, and might that address the issue?
07-01-2012 10:00 PM
well, i finally got the Q2000 to show in Device Manager. installed the driver. still no signal and without the FX1700 in its slot the Q2000 still failed to POST. updated the driver to the latest version and, whoa. bricked workstation with had a bad driver BSOD (nvlddmkm.sys) that no amopunt of fooling with the BIOS would remedy (in retrospect maybe flashing the BIOS with a clean file might have helped - but am not going to repliucate to find out though
after a day of struggling with my thinkvantage backup, which failed for some reason on the restart, i resorted to a windows image on the network storage server from last week, which did the trick - lost my recent emails in Outlook but nothing catastrophic by any means.
- disabling every non-essential BIOS function made a difference in that i could see the Q2000
- moving the FX1700 to the 2nd PCIe x16 slot, rather than removing it and replacing with the Q2000, made a difference in that the system would POST without error
other than that i can't tell you too much. i figure the card is ok if it shows up at all - but that could be a faulty assumption - but that there's something else going on
dutchice mentioned hacking a BIOS version - do any of you regulars/old-timers go in for this sort of thing?i imagine this to be small and horrendously intricate file but haven't really any idea
and, last but not least, what would be the max 775 socket board for an S10 configuration that the BIOS (or would it then take a different BIOS - and would it be worth playing with different BIOS versions on the board i have?) could handle and would it then be able to handle the Q2000?
07-03-2012 05:34 AM - edited 07-03-2012 05:37 AM
given the nvlddmkm.sys error, try cleaning your quadro drivers and installing them fresh. there used to be a good app for this called either driver cleaner or driver sweeper (or driver something to do with housekeeping) that was made specifically for this scenario.
i'm still curious if a Q2000D would require less address space than a Q2000, especially since a Q600 has been said to work. the Q2000D and Q2000 use two different PCBs and specs for DVI/DP output, leading me to think they probably use different BIOSes. but, i don't know the address space required by each BIOS and if it's different between them.
the BIOS mods dutchice is referencing involves disassembling the code, locating the device address blocks, calculating the exact space needed by each device, compressing said blocks to free up space for the GPU area by shifting the upper and lower limits, enlarging the GPU area, reassembling, calculating and correcting the checksum, and re-compiling. it would be quite involving and might not give device addresses any breathing room in the event that something grows past what the modder thought was the correct maximum address value for a particular device.
07-03-2012 07:36 AM
Not to forget mentioning that to start with, there are already large free spaces available which are tagged as "reserved space" which in practical terms remain empty during the entire lifetime of a matured bios. But again,very few times I've seen someone describe so short and in such detail, exactly what the project entitles, the way erik just did.
Which makes me wonder really, what would it take our dear moderators to refer the case to the Lenovo engineers, and ask them to do the job for us. They do have all the address mapping sheets, laying ready for the fix. My reasoning might just be very naive, but I basically believe that in the days the S10 bios was written, the monster Quadro cards such as the Q6000, Q5000, Q4000 and many others did not even exist, so it's natural that they didn't foresee the need for a larger vga address space. But then again, reliability & support the way we users are so proud of from Lenovo means that you update and go with the advances of technology. Specially when it comes to machines targeted to a very select market. Being the ability to use a Quadro line card in a Lenovo Thinkstation.
Yes, of course I already hear it coming; the S10 has reached its EOL support. But then again, Lenovo Thinkstations, are not Asus laptops, which keep multiplying like rabbits, bringing each month a new model to the market. We are here talking about 3 machines spanning all the way from 2008 to 2012. Why would it be not reasonable to ask for at least 5 if not 7 years of active support on these machines?
Bo, I do not want to discourage you, in trying to get the whole setup to work. In fact I encourage you to do so. But I also feel it's unfair not to share what my own experiences are with what at the moment is keeping you busy. I have gone far far beyond the limits you have gone so far in order to get my problem solved. It is indeed the case that if you install a FX1700 together with a card which won't post, you will get into windows and notice that device manager sees the card, but with the "Device could not start." warning. The problem is at a whole higher level, that at the OS level. I remember even cross flashing the bios firmware of a C2050 Tesla (arguing that the S10 bios would perhaps be less hostile to the Quadro line) on both the GTX470 & GTX570, on a different compatible board, then testing if the card posts on the compatible board. Which it did perfectly, and even windows started downloading the C2050 drivers to install, so the card was literally identifying itself as a C2050. But not even that, made the S10 bios in thinking different and post. So to be honest in my opinion you have only the following options at the moment;
07-04-2012 02:16 PM
eirk, thx for the informative, succinct reply. my skills at this stage are clearly inadequate to fooling with a BIOS. pity there's jot a bit more duration to BIOS updates but looking at some other products i see that a couple years of support in that department seems to be the limit.
the point in the long run is exactly that - the long run - so i'll have to rethink the path to travel toward those several more years of use left in my S10. the additions made so far have provided noticeable improvements in cooling and performance; clearly the card is functional and from the pre-purchase research will be sufficient for my rather pedestrian 3D design needs for the forseeable future: trying to return the 2000 for a 2000D at this point is impractical just as an upgrade to the latest and greatest in workstations is impractical.
so i'll keep poking around and fooling with configurations of installation - look for the driver wreakage cleaner upper you suggested, try Dutchice's rec on the 4x slot install and if i succeed without any radical changes to the unit (such as a motherboard) i'll post back