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72 Posts

10-21-2009

NY

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TCP Timeouts in Native Windows 7 64-bit (wired and wireless)

2010-04-20, 3:33 AM

I am having some major headaches with this new laptop in regards to network stability.  I have a W510 4318CTO with the Ultimate-N 6300 AGN adapter.  Here is what I'm seeing:

 

Prior to installing Virtual PC/XP Mode, whenever I am browsing the web or accessing samba shares, I occasionally get spurts of timeouts.  Sometimes the timeouts are inescapable, but oddly enough the issue surfaces less after a hibernation than after a reboot or shutdown/start.  Google Docs is one thing that is especially unstable.  Either the icons don't load or the style sheet doesn't load or I can't click on anything or I can't save a document or open a document.  This happens across all browsers when run in regular old Windows 7.  I tried adjusting affinity and resetting tcp and reinstalling the network drivers and scanning for malware and yada yada yada.

 

I have made queries on Microsoft Connect and TechSupportForum and nothing I've tried is helping.  This problem doesn't happen on my XP desktop at all, and very strangely, this doesn't happen in XP Mode on the same laptop at the same time as the issue surfaces in native win7.  If I ping the gateway, I get timeouts at the same time as the issue manifests and I get longer response times when making network requests.  I have been hammering this issue for the entire month and can't get past it.  I've tried uninstalling Lenovo's Access Connection tool and that didn't help either.   I tried this over the 82577LM gigabit wired adapter as well and have the same issues but they occur less than in wireless mode (which I would expect).

 

I am quite an expert on Windows, but this issue has brought me to my wits end.  I am an inch away from blowing the preinstall away and starting from scratch, but I just don't want to invest so much time in reinstalling everything.  I've had enough trouble with working around power management issues on this new laptop and I just want this fixed.

 

If you can solve this, I would be forever grateful.  I feel like I'm in the empty hell of a network admin's nightmare.

 

- Steve

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4272 Posts

12-02-2007

United States of America

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  • Message 2 of 11

Re: TCP Timeouts in Native Windows 7 64-bit (wired and wireless)

2010-04-20, 6:59 AM

Hello,

 

Did you try performing a packet capture of both "good" and "bad" ping sessions on both interfaces to see if there was any hint was to which end of the network connection the problem is occurring at?

 

If the problem occurs with both the wired and wireless connections then I would think it might be a software issue, as opposed to a hardware one. 

 

Have you tried temporarily uninstalling any anti-malware software to see if that might be the culprit?

 

 

Regards,

 

Aryeh Goretsky

 



I am a volunteer and neither a Lenovo nor a Microsoft employee.

L380 YogaP50 (20EN-*)P51sP72 (20MB-*)P43sS230u (3347-4HU)T23 (2648-LU7)T42 (2378-R4U)T43p (2678-H7U)T61p (6459-CTO)W510 (4318-CTO)W530 (2441-4R3)X100e (3508-CTO)X120e (0596-CTO)X220 (4286-CTO)X250 (20CM-*)X1e gen3X1 Yoga gen 5X12 gen1X13 gen1Yoga 370

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72 Posts

10-21-2009

NY

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  • Message 3 of 11

Re: TCP Timeouts in Native Windows 7 64-bit (wired and wireless)

2010-04-20, 12:35 PM

I'm using the Windows Firewall, Microsoft Security Essentials and Malwarebytes.  I've disabled the firewall and MSE and had Malwarebytes uninstalled for a good portion of my tests, but the issue still occurs.  My Malwarebytes scan is clean as are the MSE scans.

 

One thing I do notice is that the issue is more noticable when using SSL websites and after logging into some websites.  The majority of websites work fine, but sites like Youtube, Gmail and Google Docs all have issues.  Additionally, while streaming a video file across my local network, the video will freeze temporarily when the pings time out.  It seems to come and go as well.  The pings will be fine for a time, then degrade to 90% success then to 75% and so on down to about 25% success until it slowly returns back to normal.  Another thing I observe with samba shares is with my email.  I have a mail store on a network drive and while this has worked perfectly on my old WinXP desktop, when I load up Thunderbird, pings drop to 0% success for a minute while the client loads.  I've added antivirus exclusions to ensure that it's not trying to scan network resources, but that hasn't helped.

 

I haven't done any packet capturing yet, but it's fairly obvious that this is a problem with the laptop, none of the XP machines wired or wireless exhibit this behavior, and the system that acts as an iptables router/firewall isn't configured to be picky with any clients.

 

I've also disabled IPv6 protocols on the laptop, but that didn't changing anything.

 

Another thing I observe is that using WEP instead of WSK2-AES encryption on the wireless makes a considerable improvement, but my WinXP work laptop shares none of the problems.  I left my work laptop running for the entire weekend with an IPsec/TCP VPN into work with Outlook and Communicator running the entire time and it never lost it's wireless connection.  I can get a stable ping from my work laptop to the gateway at the same time that the Win7 laptop gives timeouts, both running wireless at -45dB signal strength.  My thought is that this is some kind of QoS issue, but I don't know anything about configuring that in Win7.

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132 Posts

04-04-2008

USA

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  • Message 4 of 11

Re: TCP Timeouts in Native Windows 7 64-bit (wired and wireless)

2010-04-21, 0:51 AM

When I read this "the system that acts as an iptables router/firewall isn't configured to be picky with any clients.", I'd look at that...

 

Put a standard hub in instead and stream PC-PC and see if you still have issues.

 

Could be some IPV-6 stuff is causing your unnamed router some issues.

 

 

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72 Posts

10-21-2009

NY

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  • Message 5 of 11

Re: TCP Timeouts in Native Windows 7 64-bit (wired and wireless)

2010-04-21, 2:29 AM

Yeah, I took a deep look at my server/router.  And it turns out to be how Windows 7 interprets MTU.  I'm still not sure if I've totally fixed my issue, but I've eliminated all timeouts.  I did a tcpdump of ICMP traffic going to/from the LAN and it turns out I was getting lots of "need to frag" messages from my Win7 laptop.  I don't hardly get any from my WinXP desktop or from my XP Mode (Virtual PC) on the laptop.

 

My LAN nic had an MTU 1500 and my WAN nic had an MTU 576.  I first adjusted the LAN to MTU 576, but the timeouts still occurred.  So I set both WAN and LAN to MTU 1500 and the timeout problem is gone.  I'm also thinking there may be an MTU on my wireless bridge that needs also be set.  I'm also thinking this might fix my Wii's lag problems.

 

So why is Windows 7 being such a stickler about MTU size while XP doesn't even care?  And what MTU should I be using internally?  If I'm using jumbo packets on the gigabit lan, what should my MTU be?

 

I guess now I know how important ICMP can really be, and a good reason to do ICMP sniffing when the network has problems.

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72 Posts

10-21-2009

NY

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  • Message 6 of 11

Re: TCP Timeouts in Native Windows 7 64-bit (wired and wireless)

2010-04-21, 2:41 AM

I should also add that this still doesn't resolve the fact that my pings timeout while loading my mail client with a network mail store.  While it's loading ping doesn't work at all and webpages seldom work until it's completely loaded.  It's as if one network request takes total control of the connection and doesn't back off until it's done.  However, the requests don't seem to timeout unless they really really time out.  My requests to Google Docs completed, just very slowly.

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4272 Posts

12-02-2007

United States of America

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  • Message 7 of 11

Re: TCP Timeouts in Native Windows 7 64-bit (wired and wireless)

2010-04-21, 5:36 AM

Hello,

 

If go into the Device Manager (filename: DEVMGMT.MSC), select View→Show Hidden Devices and examine the Non-Plug and Play Drivers tree, are there any old device drivers left over from previously installed security or connectivity software?  If so, perhaps one of those is the culprit and disabling or uninstalling it will solve the problem.

 

Another possibility is that the automatic network tuning enhancements (a feature first introduced in Windows Vista) in Windows 7's network stack are changing the TCP window size until it reaches a value which is incompatible with your router.  That is fairly simple to test, though:  Open an elevated Command Prompt (filename: CMD.EXE) and issue a "netsh int tcp set global autotuninglevel=disabled" command and see if that makes any difference.  If that makes no difference, repeat the Netsh command with "autotuning=enabled" to restore the previous values and we can continue troubleshooting.

 

Regards,

 

Aryeh Goretsky

 



I am a volunteer and neither a Lenovo nor a Microsoft employee.

L380 YogaP50 (20EN-*)P51sP72 (20MB-*)P43sS230u (3347-4HU)T23 (2648-LU7)T42 (2378-R4U)T43p (2678-H7U)T61p (6459-CTO)W510 (4318-CTO)W530 (2441-4R3)X100e (3508-CTO)X120e (0596-CTO)X220 (4286-CTO)X250 (20CM-*)X1e gen3X1 Yoga gen 5X12 gen1X13 gen1Yoga 370

Communities: English Deutsche Español Português Русскоязычное Česká Slovenská Українська Język Polski Moto English


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72 Posts

10-21-2009

NY

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  • Posts: 72
  • Registered: ‎10-21-2009
  • Location: NY
  • Views: 745
  • Message 8 of 11

Re: TCP Timeouts in Native Windows 7 64-bit (wired and wireless)

2010-05-03, 13:58 PM

I tried you suggestions, goretsky, but disabling autotuning made the problem worse.  I also tried disabled heuristics along with the autotuning disabled.  Then I tried the restricted and highlyrestricted settings.  Highlyrestricted works reasonably, but not much different than normal.

 

The big problem I see now is that when the pings start getting really bad, the wireless adapter drops its connection and shows connected but with "limited or no connectivity".  I then have to disconnect and reconnect the adapter to resolve the connection problem.  I can sometimes preemptively reconnect the adapter when it appears that the connection is going to drop again, and that usually resolves the issue until it happens again.

 

I also tried dropping my MTU to 1400 across the board because some sites recommended leaving bytes available for modem transmittion flags like with PPPoE, but I'm on a cable modem, so I don't think that will do anything.  After doing that I still had connection drops.

 

The most recent connection issues have occurred while I was listening to 192kbps mp3s on a network share and running a webcam session.  What I would find is that the mp3 player suddenly will stop the song because it loses access to the network drive and then pages may or may not continue to load.  But even if websites continue to work, I still have to reset my adapter to get the mp3 player to recognize that the network drives are still connected, even if I can browse the network drives without reconnecting.

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4272 Posts

12-02-2007

United States of America

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198453 Page Views

  • Posts: 4272
  • Registered: ‎12-02-2007
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  • Message 9 of 11

Re: TCP Timeouts in Native Windows 7 64-bit (wired and wireless)

2010-05-04, 6:16 AM

Hello,

 

Perhaps the problem is with the Intel 6300 wireless network adapter, then.  Have you tried installing the latest device drivers for it? If so, did that make any difference?

 

Regards,

 

Aryeh Goretsky

 



I am a volunteer and neither a Lenovo nor a Microsoft employee.

L380 YogaP50 (20EN-*)P51sP72 (20MB-*)P43sS230u (3347-4HU)T23 (2648-LU7)T42 (2378-R4U)T43p (2678-H7U)T61p (6459-CTO)W510 (4318-CTO)W530 (2441-4R3)X100e (3508-CTO)X120e (0596-CTO)X220 (4286-CTO)X250 (20CM-*)X1e gen3X1 Yoga gen 5X12 gen1X13 gen1Yoga 370

Communities: English Deutsche Español Português Русскоязычное Česká Slovenská Українська Język Polski Moto English


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72 Posts

10-21-2009

NY

56 Signins

745 Page Views

  • Posts: 72
  • Registered: ‎10-21-2009
  • Location: NY
  • Views: 745
  • Message 10 of 11

Re: TCP Timeouts in Native Windows 7 64-bit (wired and wireless)

2010-05-04, 21:49 PM

Yes, I have the latest driver for the adapter.  I'm beginning to wonder if it has something to do with WLAN autoconfig, but I certainly can't disable that because I wouldn't have wireless access.

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