Welcome to our peer-to-peer forums, where owners help owners. Need help now? Visit eSupport here.

English Community

ThinkPad NotebooksThinkPad: X Series Tablet and Helix Laptops
All Forum Topics
Options

11 Posts

05-17-2013

United States

15 Signins

77 Page Views

  • Posts: 11
  • Registered: ‎05-17-2013
  • Location: United States
  • Views: 77
  • Message 1 of 31

Helix End/Insert keys swapped

2013-05-24, 18:49 PM

On the keyboard, the "End/Insert" key is labeld such that it looks like End should be the default behavior. ("End" is printed in the same size type as "Home" on the neighboring key, with "Insert" in smaller type.) I would expect that key to be the End key, and that with Fn held down it would become Insert.

 

In fact, the opposite is true--Insert is the default behavior, and I have to hold down Fn to get End. This seems like a mistake, since it's not consistent with the labels, and in any event it's very inconvenient--I use the End key a lot, and Insert almost never.

 

Is there a fix for this? Is it a problem anyone else is having? I have swapped my Fn and Ctrl keys in the BIOS, if that makes a difference.

Reply
Answer
Options

60 Posts

05-23-2013

Norway

59 Signins

384 Page Views

  • Posts: 60
  • Registered: ‎05-23-2013
  • Location: Norway
  • Views: 384

Re: Helix End/Insert keys swapped

2013-05-28, 20:57 PM

Doh, so that was with the light....indicating Fn always on. 

After turning it of with FN+ESC I got the expected behaviour. 

 

Must have somehow managed to turne it on, good to know for a later date.

 

Cheers

Reply

Replies(30)
Options

39 Posts

04-19-2013

Canada

135 Signins

867 Page Views

  • Posts: 39
  • Registered: ‎04-19-2013
  • Location: Canada
  • Views: 867
  • Message 2 of 31

Re: Helix End/Insert keys swapped

2013-05-26, 1:50 AM

wrote:

On the keyboard, the "End/Insert" key is labeld such that it looks like End should be the default behavior. ("End" is printed in the same size type as "Home" on the neighboring key, with "Insert" in smaller type.) I would expect that key to be the End key, and that with Fn held down it would become Insert.

 

In fact, the opposite is true--Insert is the default behavior, and I have to hold down Fn to get End. This seems like a mistake, since it's not consistent with the labels, and in any event it's very inconvenient--I use the End key a lot, and Insert almost never.

 

Is there a fix for this? Is it a problem anyone else is having? I have swapped my Fn and Ctrl keys in the BIOS, if that makes a difference.


I just noticed this behaviour too! It's very annoying and has to be bad coding because the key labelling definitely suggests End should be default!

Reply
Options

60 Posts

05-23-2013

Norway

59 Signins

384 Page Views

  • Posts: 60
  • Registered: ‎05-23-2013
  • Location: Norway
  • Views: 384
  • Message 3 of 31

Re: Helix End/Insert keys swapped

2013-05-26, 11:21 AM

Imagine my surprise when I tried this myself...

Reply
Options

2031 Posts

11-28-2007

Czech Republic

12107 Signins

124942 Page Views

  • Posts: 2031
  • Registered: ‎11-28-2007
  • Location: Czech Republic
  • Views: 124942
  • Message 4 of 31

Re: Helix End/Insert keys swapped

2013-05-26, 12:12 PM

The QA department is probably out of office :smileyfrustrated:

__________________________________
ThinkPad (1992 - 2012): R51, X31, X220, Tablet 8.
Reply
Options

8095 Posts

11-19-2007

United States of America

10101 Signins

400183 Page Views

  • Posts: 8095
  • Registered: ‎11-19-2007
  • Location: United States of America
  • Views: 400183
  • Message 5 of 31

Re: Helix End/Insert keys swapped

2013-05-28, 12:10 PM

 

All,

 

Thanks for noting this - will check it out.

 

Mark

Reply
Options

8095 Posts

11-19-2007

United States of America

10101 Signins

400183 Page Views

  • Posts: 8095
  • Registered: ‎11-19-2007
  • Location: United States of America
  • Views: 400183
  • Message 6 of 31

Re: Helix End/Insert keys swapped

2013-05-28, 19:46 PM

All,

 

I tried this and what I noted is that except for ESC, the End / Insert keys are the only one with a printed secondary function.   On the system I tried, by default, pressing END took you to the end of a line in MS Word - expected behavior.

 

However, if the FN LCK is on (look for green indicator LED on the FN key), then the logic is reversed as noted in this thread.   FN LCK can be toggled on / off by FN - ESC combination.

 

Could everybody check this and confirm?  

 

Thanks!

 

Mark

Reply
Answer
Options

60 Posts

05-23-2013

Norway

59 Signins

384 Page Views

  • Posts: 60
  • Registered: ‎05-23-2013
  • Location: Norway
  • Views: 384
  • Message 7 of 31

Re: Helix End/Insert keys swapped

2013-05-28, 20:57 PM

Doh, so that was with the light....indicating Fn always on. 

After turning it of with FN+ESC I got the expected behaviour. 

 

Must have somehow managed to turne it on, good to know for a later date.

 

Cheers

0 person found this solution to be helpful.

This helped me too

Reply
Options

8095 Posts

11-19-2007

United States of America

10101 Signins

400183 Page Views

  • Posts: 8095
  • Registered: ‎11-19-2007
  • Location: United States of America
  • Views: 400183
  • Message 8 of 31

Re: Helix End/Insert keys swapped

2013-05-28, 21:10 PM

 

Thanks Lerun!

 

Bloggs, kmcrober,

 

Does this change restore expected operation on your systems too?

 

Edit 6/4/13 - It might also be worth taking a look at this tip on our support site that is somewhat related as the new T431s keyboard has some similarities.

http://support.lenovo.com/en_FI/detail.page?DocID=HT077465

 

Mark

Reply
Options

11 Posts

05-17-2013

United States

15 Signins

77 Page Views

  • Posts: 11
  • Registered: ‎05-17-2013
  • Location: United States
  • Views: 77
  • Message 9 of 31

Re: Helix End/Insert keys swapped

2013-05-28, 21:47 PM

Thanks to Mark for following up on this--very impressed with the responsive Lenovo attention so far. (And still loving the Helix.)

 

To be clear, turning FN lock OFF makes the End key behave as expected, but turns the F keys into fairly useless Lenovo-specific controls. If I turn Fn lock off, then I have my end key back--but now I've lost useful shortcuts like Alt-F4! (Yes, I could just hit Fn-Alt-F4, but that's a very awkward motion. Alt-F4 and similar shortcuts are useful because they're easy and quick, and adding Fn to them makes them very awkward and disruptive.)

 

Turning Fn ON gives me back standard Windows F-keys, but now I have a Home/Insert pairing at top right of the keyboard instead of Home/End.

 

 This does appear to be working as intended, based on the labels on the top row of keys, but this is a VERY poor layout decision. I can have either Windows-standard F keys or Windows-standard Home/End keys, but not both. I actually use F4 and the End keys frequently, whereas I rarely need to use the "Microphone off" and Insert keys. Lenovo should not have paired them like this.

 

This seems a lot like the strange decision to make the "Fn" key the bottom-left key on the keyboard, which someone at Lenovo obviously thinks is the best idea ever but which users seem to dislike. Lenovo finally gave users the ability to restore a standard layout there with the BIOS option....

 

PLEASE consider something similar here. This is a poor layout decision, but seems very easy to fix. It would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks again to Mark for following up with this, and Lerun for clarifying the issue.

Reply
Options

60 Posts

05-23-2013

Norway

59 Signins

384 Page Views

  • Posts: 60
  • Registered: ‎05-23-2013
  • Location: Norway
  • Views: 384
  • Message 10 of 31

Re: Helix End/Insert keys swapped

2013-05-28, 22:00 PM

So now I remember why I turned on the Fn lock in the first place...because of needing the F-keys more.

Good catch kmcrober, I agree that the F-keys are more valuable than the function keys...and is Fn not supposed to be the key to use when one wants to access functions like sound ++ :)

 

Reply
Forum Home

Community Guidelines

Please review our Guidelines before posting.

Learn More

Check out current deals!

Go Shop
X

Save

X

Delete

X

No, I don’t want to share ideas Yes, I agree to these terms